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26K views 58 replies 27 participants last post by  WesleySelman 
#1 ·
I would like to see who keeps em tucked under and who goes over the top. Post pictures and the reasons why you decided to go that route. I have noticed more and more people opting for SOA. I had thought this greatly reduced driveability but maybe I am wrong in my assumption. Id love to hear what you guys think.
 
#2 ·
I stayed with SUA for mine. After doing a ton of research, two things I concluded about the SOA: One, I don't need that much lift. Two, it's not really worth the effort.

There are a lot of things that go into doing an SOA correctly. As I researched it, I decided it just wasn't worth it.....now, if you want to run 38's, it might well be. A CJ with tires that big won't be all that drivable, anyway. At least, not what I call "drivable" Of the SOA's I've seen, I've yet to see one that drives as good as it did while SUA.

Really depends on what you plan to do with the Jeep. It it's off road only, SOA might be the best thing to do.
 
#15 ·
Of the SOA's I've seen, I've yet to see one that drives as good as it did while SUA.
Mine, on 37s is a pleasure to drive. I'm more inclined to drive it around town or on the highway than when it was stock or on 33's with approx. 3" of SUA lift.

Granted, my wheelbase is 12" longer than stock (96" now on a CJ5) and the axles are wider, but it wasn't automatic after going spring over.

Originally, it had some really bad death wobble entering any turn at 30-45mph. My tires tend to flat spot when sitting and were not balanced. I had shocks on it that were incorrectly valved as well. Some tuning was needed for street use tire pressure and toe-in also needed experimenting with. All of them combined lead to what really was dangerous on the road.

Once all these things were ironed out (other than the flat spotting which goes away quickly if the air temp is above 50°) it drives like a dream. The stability is better, the ride is more forgiving, and all the parts are tuned to work together.

This is what I call a well done spring over. It's a lot more than welding spring perches on top of the axle tubes and throwing on a drop pitman arm.

It sure wasn't cheap and no money was paid for labor of any kind.
 
#3 ·
It does'nt reduce driveability at all as long as you do it right. The biggest thing is making sure your castor is right. Not bragging but my cj drive's just as good as it did with 31's and SUA. I can cruise at 60-70 all day without ****ting my pants. SOA was cheaper for us to do too.[/
 
#4 ·
If you can do all the work yourself with out Bubbaing it soa is the way to go. If not better go sua.
I have been driving mine to work every other week for 6 weeks now, 55 miles each way all highway cruising at 60 - 75 mph sometimes up to 90(stupid rubicon thought he was bad) SOA with 33s.

When it still had the 31s

Pic of the traction bar I built to combat the axle wrap and body squat.

Pic when I first did it with the tweaked shackles,since repaired.

Pic after installing the shock hoops and bilstein 5125 12"travel shocks


Now my steering is not 100% done just running a drop pitman arm but it works. I plan on going high steer but want to swap out to a disc brake front axle so I am not going to engineer the steering till there are disc brakes in the front. I have no bump steer and it is stable however I am lacking in turn radius do to the steering links not being parallel.
 
#6 ·
I have been driving SOA for a very long time;
If done correctly and driven with care there is little downside (some increased nose dive under hard braking, some increased body roll in corners, both due to the higher CG).
That said this is not a mod for the street; (mall crawlers take note) the only valid reason to do this is for off road performance. It should probably not be considered until after the vehicle has been re-geared and selectable lockers are installed. Sway bar disconnects for use off road are highly recommended. Longer shocks are necessary as are modded shock mounts; or you will see little to no benefit from SOA.
The advent of the newer flexible springs from a few companies like RE really reduces the need for SOA off road and is the way to go for moderate+ wheeling, IMO.

SOA with flat springs will keep the CG manageable (around 5 to 5.5 inches of lift) but requires a torque arm to keep the springs alive.
SOA with high arched springs is a definite DON'T; there is no reason to consider it and the vehicle will almost certainly become unsafe to drive due to excessively high CG and the probably poor workmanship standards of people who would try it without thinking it through. (SOA is done for flexibility high arched springs are rarely flexible; so nothing is gained except excessive height).

With 33 inch tires you will hit the body and damage both sheet metal and tires when flexed out. Larger tires, of course, will do the same. (TJ rear flair mod recommended).

For tires above 33s the stock brakes need an upgrade (both for SOA and SUA).

Enjoy!
 
#8 ·
Yet another take on the debate: Hybrid SOA-SUA....

Not to throw a wrench into your conventional logic debate.... But here's what I've done and been very happy with the outcome:
I have the best of both worlds on my 85 CJ-7, SOA with cross-over hi-steer and flat pitman arm conversion up front on 2 1/2" lift rear CJ heavy duty military wrap springs and quick-discos for the swaybar offering mad flex and stability. I have a #9000 winch up front with V8 engine under the hood and she sits totally level. The rear is SUA with 4 1/2" lift extra long seven leaf packs and extended length shocks in the rear. I kept the rear SUA to combat axle wrap and squat. My CJ is very stable on side hills or off camber situations and quick street maneuvers while still flexing almost as good as a coil spring conversion, especially up front. I didn't want to limit my flex by using an anti-wrap bar in the rear since this is a side-effect of the extra "link". With 450 horses, SOA axle wrap and squat in the rear would have been a major problem unless I ran dump-truck springs with no flex. All this was virtually eliminated by keeping SUA out back and the ride quality is amazing.

RangerRick
 
#59 ·
Not to throw a wrench into your conventional logic debate.... But here's what I've done and been very happy with the outcome:
I have the best of both worlds on my 85 CJ-7, SOA with cross-over hi-steer and flat pitman arm conversion up front on 2 1/2" lift rear CJ heavy duty military wrap springs and quick-discos for the swaybar offering mad flex and stability. I have a #9000 winch up front with V8 engine under the hood and she sits totally level. The rear is SUA with 4 1/2" lift extra long seven leaf packs and extended length shocks in the rear. I kept the rear SUA to combat axle wrap and squat. My CJ is very stable on side hills or off camber situations and quick street maneuvers while still flexing almost as good as a coil spring conversion, especially up front. I didn't want to limit my flex by using an anti-wrap bar in the rear since this is a side-effect of the extra "link". With 450 horses, SOA axle wrap and squat in the rear would have been a major problem unless I ran dump-truck springs with no flex. All this was virtually eliminated by keeping SUA out back and the ride quality is amazing.

RangerRick
Do you have a build thread, and would you recommend this conversion with a YJ?
Been seriously considering going all SOA, but doing it properly, so I don't want to drop 2k if there would have been a better way to lift her. You got my attention when you said soa will eliminate the ability to really flex in the rear. I never considered that being the case after an anti wrap bar.
and if you don't mind me asking, what was your final cost?
 
#9 ·
I weighed SOA vs SUA for months when I was trying to figure out what to do. The only real reason I went to SUA was because a guy in my club was taking off his 4.5" Rubicon Express lift that was less than a year old to put arms on.. so he sold it to me at a real good price.

Otherwise, I have no idea what I would have done. Your topic is the age old question! :)
 
#10 ·
My CJ7 has been SOA since '94. I have ridden in many SUA Jeeps that ride like a buck board wagon. Mine rides smooth, does not lean in corners like you would think, and has zero bad habits (the only one was cured with a torque arm like above). The ground clearance is awesome. I relocated all my shocks to the axle tube instead of the spring plate. I retained the front anti-sway bar, but with custom length quick disconnects. After seeing mine perform offroad, I have had two of my friends bring their Jeeps to my place to remove the SUA lift and replace the springs with some YJs and do a spring over. They have all been happy with the results.

Check out the ground clearance under the rear axle in this pic. Nothing to get hung up on.
 
#13 ·
Doing a SOA on a 3B using newer springs would increase the ride quality quite a bit. You could play with spring packs to get a lower lift as well as attachment points for the springs. I have seen several SOA MB, CJ2A, etc and if anything the rear driveline is longer, not shorter. The angle of the rear drive shaft is steeper, but the use of a CV shaft helps with that. Chances are, since its a 3B (80" wheel base) you won't be driving it down the freeway at 80mph anyway.
 
#14 ·
It really is an age old argument and at the end of the day, most go back to their respective camps unchanged.

I have never been a fan of SPUA due to ground clearance. But you do get into height pretty easily with SPOA. My current CJ-5 is SPOA. It rides better, drives better etc. than my 3" Rancho lifted stocker other Jeep did.

But, I drive it like a built rig. It has wider axles and tires and I treat it accordingly.

I would imagine a NT 60 Willys with a SPOA and some 31's could be terrifying.

Properly set-up, a SPOA is not a bad thing. I did all the work myself, but by the time I did high-steer etc. it was not cheap.

I am building another CJ-5, and it is getting SPOA as well.

FWIW-ROB
 
#16 ·
I probably undersold how well they can drive. About five years ago a co-worker and I went out in my Jeeps and our wives drove. The instructions were that when we got the the pavement, we were to switch back Jeeps. She would drive the stocker.

That didn't adhere to her brain and she drove my big one home at over 60 MPH. She said it drove better and posed no problems at all.

FWIW_ROB
 
#26 ·
Right, because those of us who don't hit the rock gardens every weekend and opt for an SUA lift whose performance suits our needs must never get off the pavement. :rolleyes:

You looked past the part where he said it was dangerous with stock NT axles.....which isn't a stretch of the imagination.

Yup, hands down, the SOA will out flex a SUA any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.
Opinion = Fact ? :D

So far lots of good arguements both ways......the decision is so much clearer now hey?....:D
 
#20 ·
I just purchased a project 1980 CJ5 and one of the POA's did a truly terrible SOA job. The drive shaft is out with broken straps probably due to a poor job of adjusting drive shaft angle and I am thinking about reversing this hack job. I need to post some pictures because they used bolts as shims at the front u bolts, probably to try and adjust the angle. It is amazing what people will do to a vehicle thinking they are "adjusting"!!!
 
#21 ·
"SOA is the only way." my main reason was the axles I was swapping to. If I had the stock wide tracks still I would have kept it SUA to keep my steering geometry correct. Since the new front axle is stock setup soa and I prefer that now you can see how well the steering is tucked up. Using wrangler springs and it is very soft. only down fall is that big 14 bolt in the rear that needs shaved.
 

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#22 ·
I like how the H1 Beadlocks tuck the tires back in with the full width axles.:thumbsup:

I am still running some stock aluminum 8 lug rims I picked up off Craigslist. I'm on the hunt for some H1s to round it out after I get the motor put back in.
 
#23 ·
I have some pics of both.

Before: 4" superlift and this was about all she had with a narrow track 30 and 44



After: RE 1.5" springs in the front XJ 2.5 OME springs reversed (stretched wheelbase) in the rear both sprung over with dana 44's, shackle reversal, outboarded, highsteer, front axle moved forward 1.25" etc.

 
#25 ·
Yup, hands down, the SOA will out flex any run of the mill, prepackaged SUA any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.
Fixed it for ya.

I know of a CJ on 37's that was spring under front and rear which was in the same ballpark as a linked suspension. The owner spent many years coming up with different spring arrangements and it flexed like mad.

In the end he got bored with it and went to links and coil-overs on all four corners.
 
#27 ·


Im running SOA W/ waggy springs with an add a leaf in the rear and a 1" lift yj shackle. Stock rear early 90's s-10 springs in the front with a yj 1" lift shackle and shackle reversal.
Where I wheel its better to have it set up a little taller ( IMO ) and I love the way it looks, as far as the ride I have no idea yet. Stock it rode terrible, with my shackle angle in the front it should ride like a cadilac.
For stiring I bought a stock xj cherokee pitman arm and it makes the drag link angle much much better.
 
#28 ·
redrubikee said:
Im running SOA W/ waggy springs with an add a leaf in the rear and a 1" lift yj shackle. Stock rear early 90's s-10 springs in the front with a yj 1" lift shackle and shackle reversal.
Where I wheel its better to have it set up a little taller ( IMO ) and I love the way it looks, as far as the ride I have no idea yet. Stock it rode terrible, with my shackle angle in the front it should ride like a cadilac.
For stiring I bought a stock xj cherokee pitman arm and it makes the drag link angle much much better.
You got a build thread? That thing is awesome.
 
#29 ·
It was better for me to slowly build my SoA rather than dumping it into a SuA all at once. I love how it rides now. It's much smoother. Also as stated before, it all depends on how you're going to use your jeep. Mine is mainly for trails and driving around my small hometown. Little if any highway speeds. However, she will do 70 no problem.
 

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#58 ·
i'm in OP, so you can help me do my SOA! :cheers2:
 
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