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Unread 10-20-2012, 04:49 AM   #16
KLRJEEPER
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Use copper. Its the best conductor of electricity next to gold. Platinum etc, are just snake oil like oil addititves....

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Unread 10-20-2012, 12:49 PM   #17
jasonwe
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Did you read the rest of the thread before you posted? Gold is not better than copper, only silver. Platinum and iridium are worse, but they are not necessarily "snake oil". They do last a lot longer than copper, and some vehicles call for their use instead of copper, just not in our Compasses and Patriots.
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Unread 10-20-2012, 03:52 PM   #18
KLRJEEPER
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonwe
Did you read the rest of the thread before you posted? Gold is not better than copper, only silver. Platinum and iridium are worse, but they are not necessarily "snake oil". They do last a lot longer than copper, and some vehicles call for their use instead of copper, just not in our Compasses and Patriots.
I have education in the electrical field. Gold is a better conductor of electricity, as far as I remember. Copper is right up there but as copper is way cheaper, its the element of choice. The rest are snake oil as far as increasing power. Also at 3 times the cost longevity is non issue as well.
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Unread 10-20-2012, 04:55 PM   #19
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I believe that the important part of the thread he speaks of is not what conducts electricity better, but which conductor the rest of the ignition system is designed to work with. Less resistence from a highly conductive plug equals burned out coils, possible detonation/pre ignition etc.
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Unread 10-21-2012, 12:21 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KLRJEEPER View Post
I have education in the electrical field. Gold is a better conductor of electricity, as far as I remember. Copper is right up there but as copper is way cheaper, its the element of choice. The rest are snake oil as far as increasing power. Also at 3 times the cost longevity is non issue as well.
No, gold is not a better conductor. Gold is a good conductor, and does not corrode over time like copper, hence it is a better for metal contact-to-contact, such as connectors, electrical plugs, etc. However, for one continuous piece, copper is superior to gold, and silver is even better.

I used to think gold was a better conductor as well, because I had heard that, until I did some research. I will point out that the difference is so small, that a gold spark plug would work just fine I bet, but the cost would be terrible.

Here are some good reads.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_conductor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electri...d_conductivity
http://www.tibtech.com/conductivity.php

Lets use Champion brand spark plugs from O'Reilly Auto Parts as an example:
Lets say a copper plug costs $2.29 and lasts 25000 miles. Thats $9.16. Over 100,000 miles and four sets, thats a total of $36.64.
Lets say an iridium plug costs $7.49 and lasts 100,000 miles. Thats $29.96.

Thats a savings of $6.68. If iridium works as well as copper in an engine, I'd say it was worth it. Less labor to change the plugs, and less cost in parts. And thats just for a four cylinder engine, if you up the plug count from 4 plugs to 16 plugs, like my dual-plug-per-cylinder V8 in my Dakota, the savings get even larger. I am going to disagree with you on the snake oil comment.

However, as pointed out by Fujative and others, iridium does not work well in all engines. Your results may vary, and platinum is definitely not worth it, unless your manual/engine calls for it.
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Unread 10-21-2012, 03:33 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonwe

No, gold is not a better conductor. Gold is a good conductor, and does not corrode over time like copper, hence it is a better for metal contact-to-contact, such as connectors, electrical plugs, etc. However, for one continuous piece, copper is superior to gold, and silver is even better.

I used to think gold was a better conductor as well, because I had heard that, until I did some research. I will point out that the difference is so small, that a gold spark plug would work just fine I bet, but the cost would be terrible.

Here are some good reads.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_conductor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electri...d_conductivity
http://www.tibtech.com/conductivity.php

Lets use Champion brand spark plugs from O'Reilly Auto Parts as an example:
Lets say a copper plug costs $2.29 and lasts 25000 miles. Thats $9.16. Over 100,000 miles and four sets, thats a total of $36.64.
Lets say an iridium plug costs $7.49 and lasts 100,000 miles. Thats $29.96.

Thats a savings of $6.68. If iridium works as well as copper in an engine, I'd say it was worth it. Less labor to change the plugs, and less cost in parts. And thats just for a four cylinder engine, if you up the plug count from 4 plugs to 16 plugs, like my dual-plug-per-cylinder V8 in my Dakota, the savings get even larger. I am going to disagree with you on the snake oil comment.

However, as pointed out by Fujative and others, iridium does not work well in all engines. Your results may vary, and platinum is definitely not worth it, unless your manual/engine calls for it.
Been damn near 15 years since I did anything in college with that so I could not remember exactly. All I know is I don't spend extra money on snake oil plugs.

I have tried them and they don't last as long as the manufacturers claim. Plus less power output, nah...
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Unread 10-21-2012, 08:18 AM   #22
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So the short answer is, no he didn't read the rest of the thread.
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Unread 10-21-2012, 06:34 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkj2002 View Post
Never use plugs not designed for your engine.If it came from the factory with copper plugs your ignition system is designed to use copper plugs and copper plugs only.Platinum and iridium plugs have different resistance then copper which can lead to problems like misfires and burned out coils.Besides copper core plugs create a hotter spark anyways.To use platinum or iridium plugs you have to gap them to equal the resistance to copper plugs.So if the OE gap for coppers is 0.043" then platinums would need to be gapped around 0.060" and iridiums at about 0.080".Your not seeing the best performance or mpg's using those expensive plugs.I want to say at leat 1/4 of my income is from replacing wrong spark plugs in engines which almost always includes some coils also.Never us anti-sieze either,no need if you change the plugs on time and can make things worse if you wait to long.



I wouldn't use a bosch plug in a lawnmower I was trying to blow up,the worst plugs ever made.Almost right there with E3's,pulstar plugs,and splitfires.


I agree ^^^ I bought some non-copper for my 08 and it didn't seem to get as good of MPG. I went back to the copper. I used the E3, worked fine and no issues, other then MPG didn't seem as good. I saved them and figure in another 10k miles when they need replaced again i'll just throw them in.
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Unread 10-21-2012, 06:46 PM   #24
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Once again no one mentioned the main reason for the platinum or iridium or alloys of the two is durability and longevity for the spark plug. There are harsh conditions inside the cylinder the spark plugs endure. The platinum and iridium elements are two of the most "precious" metals. Precious refers to the fact that they are prized for their luster. Both elements are vitually impervious to any oxidation as well as many acids. Since the electrode will never dertiorate in chemical quality it provides a steady and reliable spark for a long time. Iridium is less reactive chemicaly than platinum (ie. better) but the two are almost the same. Iridium is rarer and more expensive than platinum. We all know copper will tarnish and corrode. That is why electrical connectors are gold plated when a quality connection is required. After some time the connections exposed to air will tarnish leaving a degraded connection. Gold solves this because it wont tarnish in air. Gold isn't the best conductor it's the third best, behind silver and copper. Aluminum is 4th best. Copper silver and aluminum will tarnish. Due to the prohibitive costs of silver and gold copper and aluminum are used for wiring. Connectors needing to be protected could be plated in platinum or iridium or rhodium all of them conduct good. Gold is used because it's the cheapest of those! and cheaper by alot! Aluminum being 4th best is preferred for conductors in certain situations mainly for weight and costs. It's sustantially lighter than copper and sustantially cheaper than copper at this time. At the same rated ampacity and aluminum cable will need to be bigger than a copper cable. It however will still be lighter and cheaper than the copper cable. Aluminum is used almost exclusively over copper for powerlines for it's weight.
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Unread 10-22-2012, 06:23 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuemark8 View Post
Once again no one mentioned the main reason for the platinum or iridium or alloys of the two is durability and longevity for the spark plug.
Did you read my post, #20? I basically stated in there, describing how one set of iridiums could last as long as four sets of coppers.

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Unread 10-22-2012, 10:47 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonwe View Post
Did you read my post, #20? I basically stated in there, describing how one set of iridiums could last as long as four sets of coppers.

And how long does it take you to drive 100k? Is $6 really worth it when it takes 10mins to change your plugs out.I chnage my plugs once a year regardless of miles driven(which is never more then 10,000 miles),but for $10 and 20mins of my time I know I have fresh plugs.


There is another issue that comes up with those 100k plugs which most of the time,about 75% of the time from experiance at work, will also cost you a a coil or two since the boots will get seized on the plugs and tear upon removal.
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Unread 10-24-2012, 11:55 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkj2002 View Post
And how long does it take you to drive 100k? Is $6 really worth it when it takes 10mins to change your plugs out.I chnage my plugs once a year regardless of miles driven(which is never more then 10,000 miles),but for $10 and 20mins of my time I know I have fresh plugs.
I apologize, after re-reading my posts, it sounded like I was advocating their use for everyone. I was not necessarily. I was simply pointing out that, in my opinion, it is not a "snake oil" solution. You are correct that it is a very small difference for our engines. It makes more sense for larger engines that call for more plugs, like my Dakota, which use half platinums anyway. In any case, I definitely recognize a high temperature anti-seize. I have a copper based anti-seize in my garage that I use.

Quote:
There is another issue that comes up with those 100k plugs which most of the time,about 75% of the time from experiance at work, will also cost you a a coil or two since the boots will get seized on the plugs and tear upon removal.
I have not had the opportunity to experience a situation like that, so I will bow to your expertise.
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Unread 10-26-2012, 01:43 PM   #28
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new plugs

Recently replaced my plugs at 30,000 miles. The independent garage said they had to use the OEM Mopar plugs as he was unable to locate any others that met specs.
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Unread 04-03-2013, 08:10 AM   #29
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Spark plugs question?

I just read in my owner manual than spark plug replacement interval is 50,000 KM and my Compass is near 60,000 KM.

The factory spark plugs in the manual are the NGK V-Power #ZFR5F-11, but the guy at the parts store offer me the NGK G-Power telling me it's a higher grade of spark plugs with platinum tip and more.

The G-Power are 30% more expensive which is not a problem considering the VERY low price (3.50$ for the V and 5.00$ for the G) except if they do nothing better or even if they can cause issues to my car!!

Another related question. I see somewhere on the web the torque specs for installing spark plugs on Chrysler engines is 20 lt-ft, is that right?

So? G-Power or V-Power? 20 lb-ft torque?

EDIT : I say NGK V-Power or G-Power because of the Jeep owner manual, but maybe you have a better recommendation (another brand/grade)...
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Last edited by SimmZ; 04-03-2013 at 08:23 AM..
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Unread 04-03-2013, 08:43 AM   #30
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In over 50 years of working on cars I've never seen anybody use a torque wrench on spark plugs but here's the spec.

1. To avoid cross threading, start the spark plug into the cylinder head by hand.
2. Tighten spark plugs to 17.5 ±2 N·m (13 ±2 ft. lbs.).
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