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Unread 08-02-2013, 12:30 PM   #1
darrell154
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2009 MK Patriot 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Wood Dale, IL
Posts: 1
scheduled fluid flushes

Took my 2009 4X4 Patriot with 51K miles into dealer for oil change. Recommended the following which I declined at this time.

Coolant flush
Brake flush
Power steering flush.

I see in the manual, coolant flush is listed as a 60K mile maintenance item.

I could not find any mention of the other 2 in the manual at any mileage check.
Any suggestions on the brake flush and power steering flush? The power steering flush seems like a real stretch, The brake flush so-so. The brake fluid looks a light amber now.

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Unread 08-02-2013, 12:56 PM   #2
JeepCares
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Location: MOPAR World Headquarters, Chrysler Group LLC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrell154 View Post
any suggestions on the brake flush and power steering flush?
NO!!

SERVICE BULLETIN NUMBER: 26-001-09
GROUP: Miscellaneous
DATE: September 24, 2009

SUBJECT:
Fluid Flushing Requirements

DISCUSSION:
Chrysler Group vehicle fluid systems do NOT require regular flushing. These systems
include: engine oil, transmission oil, axle lube, brake fluid, power steering fluid, and
refrigerant. The only exception to this requirement are published in the vehicle
maintenance schedules, e.g. engine coolant.
Exceptions to this recommendation include only those instances where a failure has
occurred and/or the system has become compromised, contaminated or overheated
beyond the normal operating range.
Chrysler Group does NOT recommend aftermarket chemicals to flush the engine,
transmission, brake or steering systems. Chemicals contained in these products can
damage the system elastomeric components, and contaminate the component fluid,
leading to loss of system/component durability and service life. When necessary, only the
original approved system fluid should be used to flush these components using teamPSE®
approved equipment.
If the engine coolant contains a considerable amount of sediment, clean and flush with
Mopar Cooling System Flush, p/n 04856977, or equivalent. Follow with a thorough rinsing
to remove all deposits and chemicals. Refill with a minimum of a 50% mixture of the
specified coolant and distilled water.
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Unread 08-04-2013, 09:07 PM   #3
tjkj2002
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2002 KJ Liberty 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 8,166
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepCares View Post
NO!!

SERVICE BULLETIN NUMBER: 26-001-09
GROUP: Miscellaneous
DATE: September 24, 2009

SUBJECT:
Fluid Flushing Requirements

DISCUSSION:
Chrysler Group vehicle fluid systems do NOT require regular flushing. These systems
include: engine oil, transmission oil, axle lube, brake fluid, power steering fluid, and
refrigerant. The only exception to this requirement are published in the vehicle
maintenance schedules, e.g. engine coolant.
Exceptions to this recommendation include only those instances where a failure has
occurred and/or the system has become compromised, contaminated or overheated
beyond the normal operating range.
Chrysler Group does NOT recommend aftermarket chemicals to flush the engine,
transmission, brake or steering systems. Chemicals contained in these products can
damage the system elastomeric components, and contaminate the component fluid,
leading to loss of system/component durability and service life. When necessary, only the
original approved system fluid should be used to flush these components using teamPSE®
approved equipment.
If the engine coolant contains a considerable amount of sediment, clean and flush with
Mopar Cooling System Flush, p/n 04856977, or equivalent. Follow with a thorough rinsing
to remove all deposits and chemicals. Refill with a minimum of a 50% mixture of the
specified coolant and distilled water.
All pretty false as both the PS and brake fluid require changing as they do wear out and your not flushing your replacing which has to be done.Brake fluid is tested via a copper test strip and PS fluid should be changed at least every 60k as it's just ATF and subjected to high heat.Cheaper to replace when it's still okay then have that system fail which will cost you more.

But if you want issues later down the road with expensive repaires(price out a R&P replacement and ABS pump replacement) then ignore all fluid changes all together,heck that includes oil changes,as that makes me more $$$ to pay bills and have fun.
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Unread 08-05-2013, 05:59 AM   #4
NHPATRIOT
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Location: Exeter, NH
Posts: 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkj2002 View Post
All pretty false as both the PS and brake fluid require changing as they do wear out and your not flushing your replacing which has to be done.Brake fluid is tested via a copper test strip and PS fluid should be changed at least every 60k as it's just ATF and subjected to high heat.Cheaper to replace when it's still okay then have that system fail which will cost you more.

But if you want issues later down the road with expensive repaires(price out a R&P replacement and ABS pump replacement) then ignore all fluid changes all together,heck that includes oil changes,as that makes me more $$$ to pay bills and have fun.
You just told an official Jeep(Chyrsler ) Customer Care member who posted an official Jeep(Chrysler) TSB document that he is wrong.

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Unread 08-05-2013, 07:25 AM   #5
JeepCares
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHPATRIOT View Post
You just told an official Jeep(Chyrsler ) Customer Care member who posted an official Jeep(Chrysler) TSB document that he is wrong.
That's OK. Everyone is allowed to post whatever they want (according to the forum rules.) All opinions welcome. I've actually learned a lot from this forum.

I can't force people to use a dictionary to look up words they are unfamiliar with.
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Unread 08-05-2013, 06:35 PM   #6
tjkj2002
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2002 KJ Liberty 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 8,166
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHPATRIOT View Post
You just told an official Jeep(Chyrsler ) Customer Care member who posted an official Jeep(Chrysler) TSB document that he is wrong.

I was not talking about flushes either.Like I said regardless there is no such thing as a "lifetime" fluid so all fluids regardless require replacing.Better to replace it before it causes a problem,hence preventive maintenance,cheaper in the long run.And also like I stated they have a corrosion test for the brake fluid,when the dip strip turns purple your brake fluid is full of corrossion which means it is no longer doing it's job(part of it anyway) and must be replaced.Most vehicles nodays actually do have a service interval for brake fluid due to ABS functions.
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Unread 08-07-2013, 03:10 AM   #7
Sarkus
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 23
I guess I can see the logic (to a degree) but I don't think I've ever heard about anyone doing brake fluid and power steering flushes as a matter of "normal" maintenance. Sure, doing it every 100k miles or something I can see, but doing it every 30k or some schedule like that seems unnecessarily conservative. It's like changing the oil on the Patriot every 3000 miles becasue thats what you are used to when the factory schedule is 6000 miles unless you use the vehicle in extreme circumstances. Granted, its not going to hurt anything (other than your wallet) to swap fluids out well ahead of when necessary, but I doubt its really helping anything either.

As for the OP, the first thing to ask would have been why the dealer wanted to flush those fluids, as its not part of the maintenance schedule. If they have a good reason for it - i.e. they tested the fluid or visually could see its breaking down - then it may be a valid issue.
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Unread 08-07-2013, 08:50 PM   #8
Redpine
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2014 MK Patriot 
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: , MIchigan
Posts: 29
The TSB is a little bit confusing and could be interpreted several ways.

First, it states that these fluids don't require REGULAR flushing. It does not say NEVER change the fluids. So no, you don't need to change the brake fluid every year. But if you study the interweb, you see lots of references to changing the brake fluid every 3 - 5 years, depending on your conditions. Some mfg. do have brake fluid changes in their manuals. The same would apply to power steering fluid. If you plan to keep your vehicle a very long time, it makes sense to change it on occasion.

Another point of confusion is the term FLUSH, which is different than EXCHANGE. A flush implies the use of pressure and/or chemical cleaners to literally scrub out your system. Notice that the TSB "systems" include ENGINE OIL? That TSB is saying not to use flushes in these systems. Of course you are going to CHANGE your engine oil. Most services should only be a fluid exchange. Most transmission machines now a days only exchange the fluid using the vehicles tranny pump to move the old fluid out and the new fluid in. No excess pressure or back flush is involved. Yes, I agree to avoid the chemical/pressure type flushes in most instances.

Again, I think the TSB is worded poorly and it's intent is to avoid chemical/power flushes as opposed to a fluid change when prudent. So, I would say it would be foolish to leave the original fluid in for lifetime or an extreme length of time. Everyone's conditions vary, so it is up to the individual to determine when a reasonable time is.

Last edited by Redpine; 08-07-2013 at 09:05 PM..
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Unread 08-07-2013, 09:23 PM   #9
tjkj2002
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Posts: 8,166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarkus View Post
I guess I can see the logic (to a degree) but I don't think I've ever heard about anyone doing brake fluid and power steering flushes as a matter of "normal" maintenance. Sure, doing it every 100k miles or something I can see, but doing it every 30k or some schedule like that seems unnecessarily conservative. It's like changing the oil on the Patriot every 3000 miles becasue thats what you are used to when the factory schedule is 6000 miles unless you use the vehicle in extreme circumstances. Granted, its not going to hurt anything (other than your wallet) to swap fluids out well ahead of when necessary, but I doubt its really helping anything either.

As for the OP, the first thing to ask would have been why the dealer wanted to flush those fluids, as its not part of the maintenance schedule. If they have a good reason for it - i.e. they tested the fluid or visually could see its breaking down - then it may be a valid issue.
I flush(replace,exchange,drain/fill or what ever you want to call it) my brake fluid and PS fluid every 2 years.Cost less then $10 to do and about a hours of my time.Then again I do a extreme maintance on my Jeep but I also drive it hard so it's required.No fluid in my jeep ever goes beyond 2 years of service and why mine has never had a failure in almost 12 years.

A good article about brake fluid and why it should be changed often.

http://www.brakeandfrontend.com/Arti...ke_system.aspx
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Unread 08-10-2013, 10:37 AM   #10
Chriztofor
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2007 MK Compass 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkj2002 View Post
I flush(replace,exchange,drain/fill or what ever you want to call it) my brake fluid and PS fluid every 2 years.Cost less then $10 to do and about a hours of my time.Then again I do a extreme maintance on my Jeep but I also drive it hard so it's required.No fluid in my jeep ever goes beyond 2 years of service and why mine has never had a failure in almost 12 years.

A good article about brake fluid and why it should be changed often.

http://www.brakeandfrontend.com/Arti...ke_system.aspx
Agree. There is no such thing as lifetime fluid. Here is another article about brake fluid. http://www.aa1car.com/library/bfluid.htm
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Unread 08-10-2013, 10:39 AM   #11
Chriztofor
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2007 MK Compass 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkj2002 View Post
I was not talking about flushes either.Like I said regardless there is no such thing as a "lifetime" fluid so all fluids regardless require replacing.Better to replace it before it causes a problem,hence preventive maintenance,cheaper in the long run.And also like I stated they have a corrosion test for the brake fluid,when the dip strip turns purple your brake fluid is full of corrossion which means it is no longer doing it's job(part of it anyway) and must be replaced.Most vehicles nodays actually do have a service interval for brake fluid due to ABS functions.
Agree with this too. Flushing and changing are two different issues.
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