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Unread 10-19-2012, 01:53 PM   #1
dirtdad
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Patriot v.s Grand Cherokee

We have a need for a vehicle to carry 4 adults, and some gear to a cabin in 8,000 foot altitude mountains. In the winter many times thru snow, and in the summer, at times carrying a kayak or 2 on a roof rack. Currently these needs are met with a '96 Grand Cherokee with the 5.2 V8, and full time 4wd. This car works great at this, but it is getting old, developing some funky electrical issues, and at times the trans acts weird, as well as gas mileage is not good. I am wondering if a Patriot would fill the same needs? What is gas mileage like? Comfort? Mountain and snow performance.
Thanks in advance for your input.

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Unread 10-19-2012, 03:11 PM   #2
FujativeOCR
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My 2011 Patriot w/FD2 off road package gets about 16 city, 23 highway.
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Unread 10-19-2012, 03:13 PM   #3
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Get a wj, solid axles option for straight six or v8 ( they both get equal gas milage) and great 4wd systems with the 242 or 247 transfer case.
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Unread 10-19-2012, 07:55 PM   #4
tjkj2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtdad View Post
We have a need for a vehicle to carry 4 adults, and some gear to a cabin in 8,000 foot altitude mountains. In the winter many times thru snow, and in the summer, at times carrying a kayak or 2 on a roof rack. Currently these needs are met with a '96 Grand Cherokee with the 5.2 V8, and full time 4wd. This car works great at this, but it is getting old, developing some funky electrical issues, and at times the trans acts weird, as well as gas mileage is not good. I am wondering if a Patriot would fill the same needs? What is gas mileage like? Comfort? Mountain and snow performance.
Thanks in advance for your input.
A new Grand will fit your needs much better,even a WK.You'll be cramped trying to fit 4 adults and gear in a patriot and then trying to climb in high altitudes with a very low output 4 cylinder engine and CVT trans(or 5 speed manual) and would drag the mpg's down to what a Grand with a V8 would be getting with the same load.
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Unread 10-19-2012, 11:23 PM   #5
jasonwe
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I don't think the Patriot would be as crammed as the others think unless its four pretty large adults. Mileage in the mountains won't be great, but its not great in any vehicle.

What it comes down to is this:

1. The new Grand Cherokees would be a better fit almost all around for you, but are far more expensive. Their base price is just shy of $30k when you get a 4x4 model. Add just a few options, and it starts to spiral up from there.
2. The base Patriot with the Freedom Drive II option is just a tad under $20k MSRP. Even if you load it up with every option available on a Limited trim, its still well under the Jeep Grand Cherokee's base price maxed out at about $28.5k.
3. The mileage will be about the same between the Patriot w/ FD II and the V6 Grand Cherokee. However, the Hemi Grand Cherokee would get even worse. Obviously power is no contest, but you can't get power and decent gas mileage.

What it boils down to is how much money you want to spend.
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Unread 10-25-2012, 04:03 PM   #6
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Comfort would be no problem. There's plenty of leg room for 4 adults and it rides nice. It's a good value, not sure about the Pat, but a loaded Compass Limited is normally still under $30k and they seem pretty willing to deal. I've only had mine up to about 3600' elevation (as high as it gets here) but it was fine, if a bit anemic. I would think even at 8000' it'd be ok, it just won't get you there fast. No snow yet for me, but on grass I've been pleased with the 4x4, I've taken it places my truck couldn't go. My guess would be you'd want FD2 if the mountain roads aren't paved, but for paved roads, you might could get away with FD1 and save the fuel economy (but as I mentioned, no personal experience yet). Where I think you'll run into issues is storage for your gear. The back isn't very deep, and its relatively narrow. You might need a hitch hauler to carry the gear for 4 adults, especially with Kayaks on the roof. But, if you're stuff will fit, I think the Pat/Compass is a pretty good combo. My FD1 avg city MPG is just a tick under 20 MPG and highway avg is about 27 (Sticker was 21/26 I think).
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Unread 10-25-2012, 05:42 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Wmillonig View Post
but a loaded Compass Limited is normally still under $30k .
Man my Liberty Limited was only $17,000 out the door,brand new.
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Unread 10-25-2012, 05:44 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wmillonig View Post
My FD1 avg city MPG is just a tick under 20 MPG and highway avg is about 27 (Sticker was 21/26 I think).
Correct, a FD I with the CVT stickers at 21 city and 26 highway. My wife's gets 23-24 with 80% city driving. It will most likely take a dip now that its winter and we just had our first snow-fall, she'll be letting it idle more to warm up the interior. She hates the cold.
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Unread 10-26-2012, 05:03 AM   #9
Wmillonig
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Originally Posted by tjkj2002 View Post
Man my Liberty Limited was only $17,000 out the door,brand new.
Oy...Seems like inflation only works for outgo, not income. Thankfully a pretty good discount makes me feel a little less pained!
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Unread 10-26-2012, 01:06 PM   #10
dirtdad
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As I mentioned in my original post, we currently have a '96 Grand Cherokee with the 5.2 V8 and full time 4wd. Its getting old and every day all around mileage is about 15 mpg. I was not considering a new Grand Cherokee, maybe a newer used Liberty, but I dont think the mileage is much better. I am more concerned with everyday gas mileage than the times I go up the mountain. Just thinking forward as I tend to keep my vehicles for 8 to 10 years if I buy them new. Can someone explain the difference between the drive options? I would get the automatic trans. Is the auto trans durable and reliable?
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Unread 10-26-2012, 05:20 PM   #11
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Please visit the Quick Links and you'll find your answers to the drive systems.

The wife has an '06 GC, 5.7 Hemi and gets about 17-19 mpg. She loves hers and I love mine BUT while I was off of works and gas prices were going up, she asked if she could borrow mine and when ever we go some place together, short or long trips, we always take my Compass..
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Unread 10-29-2012, 09:22 PM   #12
tjkj2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtdad View Post
As I mentioned in my original post, we currently have a '96 Grand Cherokee with the 5.2 V8 and full time 4wd. Its getting old and every day all around mileage is about 15 mpg. I was not considering a new Grand Cherokee, maybe a newer used Liberty, but I dont think the mileage is much better. I am more concerned with everyday gas mileage than the times I go up the mountain. Just thinking forward as I tend to keep my vehicles for 8 to 10 years if I buy them new. Can someone explain the difference between the drive options? I would get the automatic trans. Is the auto trans durable and reliable?
Compass/Patriot auto trans is a CVT trans,not the most reliable trans in the world.The 46RE(if I remember correctly) in your ZJ is 10 times the trans then those CVT's.
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Unread 11-04-2012, 12:10 PM   #13
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I have a 99 regular Cherokee not the GC and it gets about 20 mpg on the highway. I frequently get 30 mpg with our 5 speed stick Patriot but the CVT will not get that mileage. I put the factory crossbars on our Patriot and they work for a ski carrier but I cannot get a canoe on top like the Cherokee. We use our Patriot for all highway driving but use the Cherokee for deer hunting.

Edited: If you want to put a canoe or kayaks on top get an aftermarket set of carriers the factory option is too narrow.
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Unread 11-04-2012, 07:13 PM   #14
jasonwe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkj2002 View Post
Compass/Patriot auto trans is a CVT trans,not the most reliable trans in the world.The 46RE(if I remember correctly) in your ZJ is 10 times the trans then those CVT's.
The 46RE will usually be behind the 5.2L V8. 1996 was one of the first years for the "RE" version (rather than the 46RH). Only difference is that in the 46RH, the OD is controlled by a hydraulic system, as opposed to an electric one in the RE.

No offense intended, but have you ever owned a vehicle with the 46RH/RE? They are known to be one of the worst transmissions Chrysler ever made. Some will last 150,000+ miles, others won't last 50,000 miles. They will not take any abuse at all. Most don't make it to 100,000 without at least one rebuild.

I am not saying the CVT is a great transmission, I do not have enough experience to judge yet, but I do know it'll take a LOT to make me say it is worse than the 46RH/RE.
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Unread 11-05-2012, 07:33 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by jasonwe View Post
No offense intended, but have you ever owned a vehicle with the 46RH/RE? They are known to be one of the worst transmissions Chrysler ever made. Some will last 150,000+ miles, others won't last 50,000 miles. They will not take any abuse at all. Most don't make it to 100,000 without at least one rebuild.

I am not saying the CVT is a great transmission, I do not have enough experience to judge yet, but I do know it'll take a LOT to make me say it is worse than the 46RH/RE.
Oh there are far worse than the 46RE/RH. The 42RE is basically a weaker version of the same trans (commonly found behind the 4.0L in Grand Cherokees) and the 42RLE (found in Liberties and 3.8L JKs) is an utter piece of crap, actually it and the rest of the Ultradrive series are by far the worst transmissions Chrysler ever made (atleast in recent history). The 46RE/RH while not a great transmission, usually does fine in Grand Cherokees simply because it is overspeced for the application. The 46RE/RH is a full-sized truck transmission, and while weak as full sized truck transmissions go, the ~4000lb Grand Cherokee doesn't stress it much, now Rams are a different story where it is common to find these failed.

Of course the "best" automatics in Jeeps were/are the non-Chrysler ones for the most part; Specifically the Aisin-Warner AW4 and Daimler sourced W5A580. The ZF Friedrichshafen ZF 8HP (Charger, 300, Ram) looks promising as well although it hasn't made it to any Jeeps yet. Manuals are even better but these are rare and becoming rarer in everything besides the Wrangler and of course you can't get FDII in a Patriot with a manual.

CVT anyone say ick. They aren't known to be durable or last very long and good luck finding anyone to work on them when they do fail. Most independent shops won't tough a CVT and a Dealer will only replace not repair/rebuild them.
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