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Unread 04-02-2008, 09:58 AM   #1
Jerry-rigged
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Partiot FD II or JK unlimited?

I'm trying to decided between a JK unlimited or a Patriot (or a small pick-up, but small pickups are not really small anymore ) It will be a daily driver, plus my weekend toy. As a Toy it will be used on Texas beach and bay trails to go fishing - so deep soft sand and sand/clay mud will be the primary "get stuck" hazards.

I know the JK will have no issues with any of this - How will the 4x4 Patriot do in these conditions? I will probably add the lift kit and some better tires (BFG A/T's or Goodyear SA A/T's) Also I have read that the MK cannot handle tires larger than 29", what about wide tires? how wide can I go before I have issues? (assuming aftermarket rims with corrected backspacing).

Am I asking too much out the the MK?

The reason I am looking at the MK at all - MPG. a JK or compact truck will only get 15-17mpg. As a daily driver, I can live with that, but I would really like to get 20+MPG.

Last question - what is the tow rating on the MK? I have a small boat (14' john) that I tow around every now and again... If the MK won't cut it, NBD, my wife's 4-runner can handle it...

Thanks,
Jerry

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Unread 04-02-2008, 10:53 AM   #2
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This link may help answer some of your questions. http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f98/08-liberty-vs-patriot-478193/
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Unread 04-02-2008, 11:02 AM   #3
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Thanks, Gramps, but that didn't have the info I was looking for...

Maybe I should edit my origonal question to -

How does the Patriot do Off-road? Yea, I have seen the vid of it zooming up and down hard-pack trails that my honda Civic could handle, but really, when you hit deep sand and a little mud, where you really NEED 4x4 to power thru, how will it do?

Thanks-
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Unread 04-02-2008, 11:55 AM   #4
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If offroad is your goal and you do not mind paying the additional gas go for the JK. If you plan on driving onroad more than off and your a miser like me go for the MK (Patriot)
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Unread 04-02-2008, 12:55 PM   #5
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I can afford the gas, but I can see gas going to $4/g and beond, so gas milage is on my mind... Otherwise I would not be looking at the MK's... I hear JK guys telling of milage everywhere between 22 and 10, so I have no idea what to really expect there, but guess it would really be 15-17. Seems the MK guys get mid-to upper 20's consistantly. That would be nice. but not if I get stuck every time I head to the beach.

My goal is to not get stuck when I go fishing... With my current 2wd trucks, that means only going to hard-packed beachs, and only a few baytrails during dry weather... Several of the beaches/bays that my buddys fish are 4x4 only any time other than cream-puff conditions... I know the "light-suv" imports like Rav4, CRV and Element don't do well in these same areas during "normal" conditions... they can almost make it, usally, but lack of power and lack of a good low gear usally is their downfall. I guess I could ask my question as - will the MK do any better than the AWD small imports?

Thanks-
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Unread 04-02-2008, 01:14 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry-rigged View Post
I'm trying to decided between a JK unlimited or a Patriot (or a small pick-up, but small pickups are not really small anymore ) It will be a daily driver, plus my weekend toy. As a Toy it will be used on Texas beach and bay trails to go fishing - so deep soft sand and sand/clay mud will be the primary "get stuck" hazards.

I know the JK will have no issues with any of this - How will the 4x4 Patriot do in these conditions? I will probably add the lift kit and some better tires (BFG A/T's or Goodyear SA A/T's) Also I have read that the MK cannot handle tires larger than 29", what about wide tires? how wide can I go before I have issues? (assuming aftermarket rims with corrected backspacing).

Am I asking too much out the the MK?

The reason I am looking at the MK at all - MPG. a JK or compact truck will only get 15-17mpg. As a daily driver, I can live with that, but I would really like to get 20+MPG.

Last question - what is the tow rating on the MK? I have a small boat (14' john) that I tow around every now and again... If the MK won't cut it, NBD, my wife's 4-runner can handle it...

Thanks,
Jerry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry-rigged View Post
Thanks, Gramps, but that didn't have the info I was looking for...

Maybe I should edit my origonal question to -

How does the Patriot do Off-road? Yea, I have seen the vid of it zooming up and down hard-pack trails that my honda Civic could handle, but really, when you hit deep sand and a little mud, where you really NEED 4x4 to power thru, how will it do?

Thanks-
Sorry to be so short previously, just trying to give you a little info. This "work" thing keeps interfering with my fun.

I'll rename you thread to hopefully attract some FD II owners to respond.

Tires - "some" folks on another site are using some 245/70R17 I believe that are just over 30" but you have to be careful about the curvature of the sidewall, it has to curve in enough to miss the strut spring support. You may be able to get just about as much width with an aspect ratio of 235. Tread design is far more important than height or width for what your goals are.

Tow rating on the FD II is 1500 lbs, probably enough for what you have in mind.

I hope that's a little more helpful.
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Unread 04-02-2008, 02:27 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry-rigged View Post

How does the Patriot do Off-road? Yea, I have seen the vid of it zooming up and down hard-pack trails that my honda Civic could handle, but really, when you hit deep sand and a little mud, where you really NEED 4x4 to power thru, how will it do?

Thanks-
Have you seen the video of the FDI Compass buzzing through the sand dunes? I'd consider that pretty deep sand, and not hard packed...though not wet/muddy either.

If the FDI system can handle it, I'm sure the FDII can as well.

Otherwise, I'd say the best test of the FDII to date has been conducted by Expedition West...www.expeditionwest.com

You might find some examples of stuff that FDII can do there.
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Unread 04-02-2008, 02:49 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unclejjg View Post
Have you seen the video of the FDI Compass buzzing through the sand dunes? I'd consider that pretty deep sand, and not hard packed...though not wet/muddy either.

If the FDI system can handle it, I'm sure the FDII can as well.

Otherwise, I'd say the best test of the FDII to date has been conducted by Expedition West...www.expeditionwest.com

You might find some examples of stuff that FDII can do there.
WOW, I just read the review of the Patriot they did ... very impressive!!

http://www.expeditionswest.com/equip...riot/index.htm
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Unread 04-02-2008, 02:57 PM   #9
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thanks for the link... Sounds like they liked the FDII.

I'm not sure about the FDII, though - I read that you MUST get the CVT? not sure I like that... most autos drive me crazy when they go to redline when all I want is a little scoot and from what I read, the CVT is even worse about taking the motor high in the RPM's when you want to go. I guess I'll have to test drive it and decided...
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Unread 04-02-2008, 03:03 PM   #10
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Here's the Compass Oregon Dunes vid that unclejjg was taking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_4kYQQWZ-0

Yup, FD II only comes with the CVT for the 19:1 crawl ratio. The trans is like a snowmobiles but with programed "gears", redline it and then let the trans adjust as needed.
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Unread 04-02-2008, 05:08 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry-rigged View Post
thanks for the link... Sounds like they liked the FDII.

I'm not sure about the FDII, though - I read that you MUST get the CVT? not sure I like that... most autos drive me crazy when they go to redline when all I want is a little scoot and from what I read, the CVT is even worse about taking the motor high in the RPM's when you want to go. I guess I'll have to test drive it and decided...
Well, as the video that Gramps posted shows...if you are looking to screw around in the sand, the FDI has no problems. Don't forget, you can lock in the 4WD on the FDI.

Also, the skid plates that are equipped with FDII shouldn't really be needed if you are driving on the sand, so no loss there.

You might miss the Brake Locking Differentials on the sand. That comes with the FDII, however the FDI comes with traction control. Further, the ground clearance is still pretty good, and the available lift kit can add just over 2".

Basically, I would imagine even a vehicle with a true transfer case (Wrangler, Liberty, etc.) would approach sand in 4-Hi. Both the Compass and FDI Patriot provide 4-Hi.

Personally, I'd opt for the FDII...but that is just me. People on this site and another have taken the FDI versions off-road and had a good time.

I think the Brake Locking Differentials sells it for me, because I don't expect aftermarket support for lockers. How often do you see locking diffs for independent suspension rigs? I can think of the FJ and Hummer...that's it.

Also, another good video can be seen on the jeep website. It is a little long, but it shows the Patriot FDII going through some pretty good mud...specifically during the "Traction" part of the video. http://www.jeep.com/en/4x4/trail_rated/

Last edited by unclejjg; 04-02-2008 at 05:19 PM..
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Unread 04-02-2008, 05:47 PM   #12
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I have both the JK and MK (fdII). What the MK lacks in toughness it more than makes up for with its low weight and electronic differential controls.

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Unread 04-02-2008, 05:49 PM   #13
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And there are plenty more on youtube. Start with this one and then you can link to others. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTYMFvcZQbw

Also, we have started our own members stuff too: MK's Off-Road. For mud see Doba's in the Compass section and the Patriot could do more.
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Unread 04-03-2008, 07:53 AM   #14
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Thanks guys

I can't get to all that u-tube and photobucket here at work, but last night, I got on at home and watch about an hour worth of vids... including a few Compass and Patriots heading down some nasty trails... They did leave me wondering one more question -

In several vids, the Pat would lift on wheel off the ground, and that wheel would "lock up" - I am guessing the traction control system would lock the brake for that one wheel - is that another feature only avalable on the FDII? or does the FDI also have the same traction control system?:
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Unread 04-03-2008, 11:37 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry-rigged View Post
Thanks guys

I can't get to all that u-tube and photobucket here at work, but last night, I got on at home and watch about an hour worth of vids... including a few Compass and Patriots heading down some nasty trails... They did leave me wondering one more question -

In several vids, the Pat would lift on wheel off the ground, and that wheel would "lock up" - I am guessing the traction control system would lock the brake for that one wheel - is that another feature only avalable on the FDII? or does the FDI also have the same traction control system?:
As far as Jeep is concerned, they are different. How much different, I don't know. One of the items mentioned as being exclusive to FDII models is Brake Lock Differentials.

Look at the following link under the Freedom Drive II heading. You will see a list of "unique features". http://www.jeep.com/en/2008/patriot/...drive_systems/

Compare this to what is found under the Electronic Stability Program at the following link. You will see that it mentions the standard ESP, including all-speed traction control. http://www.jeep.com/en/2008/patriot/...ent_avoidance/
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