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Unread 06-14-2013, 08:15 PM   #1
SnowLeopard
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Low-end gearing of 6 spd auto vs CVT

I know that with 2014 the Patriot was released with a 6-speed auto transmission, but they don't offer FDII with that option. They state this is due to the CVT offering a mock-low to simulate true low-gear in a transfer case. Of course, we know this just locks the CVT into the lowest stepping in the gearing it can manage and is nowhere near the same as true 4-low. It's more like having your say Cherokee in 1st gear while in 4-Hi. Sure, it might be slightly different considering the behavior of a CVT vs auto tranny, but that is the gist of it from what I can tell.

With that said, why don't they offer all of the decked out 4-wheeling ruggedness of the FDII package, skid plates, tow hooks, etc., with the 6-spd? If you put it in 1st gear and had the 4-loc on, wouldn't it be about the same? I wonder if any Jeep engineers could chime in. Sometimes I think they're browsing this board, but whether or not they say anything is up for debate. I really would like to know. It's just one of those questions that begs to be answered. Unfortunately, the Patriot gets little love online and thus there's not a whole lot of detailed information on it like there is for Wranglers and Grand Cherokees.

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Unread 06-15-2013, 01:14 AM   #2
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The FD2 has different gearing outside the cvt. in addition to skid plates hooks etc
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Unread 06-15-2013, 03:26 AM   #3
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It has a different final drive, so its actual over all gearing is different from a FDI patriot with the cvt. (19:1 vs 14:1) when you go into low, the engine climbs to much higher rpms than it does in drive/speed, giving you better torque.... I'm sure something similar could be set up with the 6 speed, but you have to look at cost of programing and engineering vs the benefits they get out of it (profit) the FDII is a low volume seller vs a FWD or FDI patriot. so i bet it just didn't justify the cost to set up the 6 speed with two configurations. (and coming from hyundai, it would probably cost even more) and they are also planning on replacing the MK platform sometime around 2015... since they already have the 2014 model year on the market, it could be as soon as the 2015 model year.
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Unread 06-15-2013, 09:12 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FujativeOCR View Post
The FD2 has different gearing outside the cvt. in addition to skid plates hooks etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by aroundincircles View Post
It has a different final drive, so its actual over all gearing is different from a FDI patriot with the cvt. (19:1 vs 14:1) when you go into low, the engine climbs to much higher rpms than it does in drive/speed, giving you better torque.... I'm sure something similar could be set up with the 6 speed, but you have to look at cost of programing and engineering vs the benefits they get out of it (profit) the FDII is a low volume seller vs a FWD or FDI patriot. so i bet it just didn't justify the cost to set up the 6 speed with two configurations. (and coming from hyundai, it would probably cost even more) and they are also planning on replacing the MK platform sometime around 2015... since they already have the 2014 model year on the market, it could be as soon as the 2015 model year.
Thanks for the info. I didn't realize this. It does make some sense. I do think it's a shame how Jeep caters mostly to the soccer mom types these days, but that's what sells. In order to get a truly decked out 4-wheeling Patriot, it seems you have limited options. That's where modding comes in, of course. It's a Jeep thing.

With that said, I was thinking about getting a Patriot until I went to see some at a dealership today. The salesman actually mentioned that a new "Cherokee" is going to be released later this year. By all intents and purposes, it looks like it will be pretty cool. It won't be as capable as a Grand Cherokee, but it will be smaller like the Compass/Patriot and equally capable off-road as those. It will also have a variation of the Pentastar V6 as an engine option. I'm sure this is all over the forum though, and I just haven't been around enough to notice. Considering the similarity in pricing to the Patriot, especially with off-road options, I think I'll wait to see what comes from the factory before I give anymore serious thought to Jeep shopping.
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Unread 06-16-2013, 02:04 AM   #5
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Pros of the new cherokee:

more dedicated off road system, locking rear diff than a patriot.

Cons of the new cherokee:

Price (to get a trail rated version, you have to spend at least $30k, starting price, before any options) it has less ground clearance than a patriot (8" vs 9") Less interior space than a patriot, and its ugly as sin...

For the price of the cherokee, you can get a wrangler that is immensely more capable than what the cherokee will be. (if off road ability is what you want) The cherokee is a "luxury" aimed car with all of its features, kinda like a step to the grand cherokee. the trail hawk package, is there to make traditional jeep owners not despise jeep. if you want a luxury SUV, that can go off road sometimes, it might be for you.

I will hold on to my patriot till either I can buy a JKU (or 4door wrangler, what ever it might be when I can afford it) OR if there is a serious redesign on the cherokee that makes it look like the patriot, AND you can get the trail rated package on a stripped out base model (less than 24k).

the patriot is no wrangler, but you will not find a more capable vehicle for the money..

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Unread 06-16-2013, 08:02 PM   #6
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I was hopeful for the new Cherokee, but then reading over the material online and viewing more photos, I'm kind of turned off of it. All the points you made are sound, and I kind of wish I'd taken a closer look at the Patriots on the lot at the Jeep dealership yesterday. Everything had hail damage from a recent hail storm. They didn't have any Patriots with FDII though. I wish they had as I bet they'd have been discounted but good. I don't care about the hail damage so much as long as everything else is sound. Though I don't want my vehicle to be beat up if I can help it. Still, if I can get $4000 off the price because of it, I might be willing...
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Unread 06-16-2013, 10:09 PM   #7
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that's too bad they didn't have a FDII, a few dents from hail would be worth the large discount!
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Unread 06-17-2013, 08:02 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aroundincircles View Post
that's too bad they didn't have a FDII, a few dents from hail would be worth the large discount!
Yeah, it was the only dealership in the city that had any Patriots, too. So I was out of luck. They didn't have any 2014's with the new 6-spd tranny either. I'd have liked to have checked one of those out, too.
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Unread 06-21-2013, 07:58 PM   #9
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I did some checking, and it looks like the Trailhawk version of the "Cherokee" will have one more inch of ground clearance than the other versions. They state this two ways: some data suggests that the Sport, Latitude, and Limited have 8.7" while other sources give that as the ground clearance for the Trailhawlk. Even still, that's .3" less than the Patriot with FDII has so I'm not going to knock it too much for that. Having true 4-low with a 50:1 crawl ratio compared to the 19:1 the Patriot with FDII touts will be nice. That and the rear locker. Now if they could just do something about those looks. The weird headlight placement just irks me. The rest isn't terrible until you get to the rear, when you're left wondering...why? But you know, I don't own a vehicle because it's perty. I like for it to have function. If only the interior wasn't so...space age. In these types of vehicles you want simplicity over digital hoopla. Ah well. I guess we'll see how the fangled thing fares when it finally shows up for sale.
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Unread 06-21-2013, 08:43 PM   #10
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I would be way more interested in it, if you could get the base model, and just add the trail hawk package, kinda like the FDII on the patriot. You don't have to have a limited to get the the off road stuff. I want it to be basic, less stuff to break. Even my patriot with electric windows, upgraded stereo was more than I wanted... it was just one of 3 FDII vehicles at the time I bought, the other two were compasses that were optioned up, and I wanted a patriot.
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Unread 06-22-2013, 12:33 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aroundincircles View Post
I would be way more interested in it, if you could get the base model, and just add the trail hawk package, kinda like the FDII on the patriot. You don't have to have a limited to get the the off road stuff. I want it to be basic, less stuff to break. Even my patriot with electric windows, upgraded stereo was more than I wanted... it was just one of 3 FDII vehicles at the time I bought, the other two were compasses that were optioned up, and I wanted a patriot.
Exactly my thoughts. Having to spend $29k for the Trailhawk just to get the off-road package is a joke. For that kind of money you could have a well outfitted Grand Cherokee that's only a couple of years old, still with warranty, certified and all. Sure, you might want something smaller than the GC, but the sad thing is that the new "Cherokee" isn't a whole lot smaller overall in dimensions. I'd bet it's just as big as the old ZJ or close to it. So since when did a mid-size SUV become a huge thing, and you have to opt for a mini-CUV to get an actual Grand Cherokee sized vehicle? It's so much the opposite of what a Cherokee should be I'm a bit baffled, too. At least you can look at each generation of Grand Cherokee and see the evolution of the model. You by no means can look at the new Cherokee and see anything of the original XJ. It's really meant to replace the Liberty, but even then it looks nothing like one of them either. What exactly is the purpose? Compass replacement? Are they going to drop the Compass/Patriot? I agree that they should rebuild the shell to look like a Patriot and forget all the techno gizmos. KISS.
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Unread 06-22-2013, 08:27 PM   #12
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I know they are planing on exing the MK line (compass/patriot) around 2015. I don't know if that is in 2014 for the 2015 model year, or 2015 for the 2016 model year... but they are planning on replacing it with a smaller jeep. But that's at least a year from now, so its hard to say for sure.
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Unread 06-23-2013, 06:55 PM   #13
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You know how the liberty got a makeover in the 2008 model year? I see that happening with the Cherokee at some point already. Maybe not next year, but I predict a redesign after the novelty of the interior wears off. And if/when it does happen it will be after the Patriot is discontinued.
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