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Unread 11-17-2009, 11:28 PM   #1
ZJTom
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Lockers on Patriot?

I've got some time to think and research this, but in the future I will be taking over a 2007 Jeep Patriot 4x4 (from my parents as the buy something else) to replace my 9mpg lifted ZJ

We've done some 4x4 with the patriot ... but we don't have the trail rated version and it doesn't feel as if it has lots of low end torque to pull you through loose obstacles, so I want to increase traction by locking one of the differentials

Has anyone put a locker on a patriot before? It is possible? What other options do I have to increase traction off-road?

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Unread 11-18-2009, 09:43 AM   #2
limeking
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I am no patriot pro here but I am going to say no. I beleive on the trail rated version there is a traction setting that applys the brakes to the wheel that spins to keep you moving.
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Unread 11-18-2009, 11:09 AM   #3
Tyler-98-W68
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Limeking is correct there are no lockers available for the Patriot.

If you have the FDII offroad version of the Patriot you will have Brake Lock Differentals(BLD) programmed to be very agressive.

The standard patriots have the BLD but it is not as agressive.

Here are some videos showing the difference:

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In this video it isn't in the locked 4x4 mode however it is almost exactly the same as what you would have in a Non trail rated patriot.

[yt]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Fb7M33fDWso&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Fb7M33fDWso&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/yt]

This video shows you the Trail Rated Offroad mode, with much more agressive BLD performance.

Best way to think of the MK's 4wd system operation is similar to the Quadra Trac 1 system,

Any more questions i'd be happy to help i've played around with the 4x4 system on my patriot alot.
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Unread 11-18-2009, 12:40 PM   #4
miketmx
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The Trail Rated FDII has the Low range but both FDI and FDII have 4X4 Lock and ESP Full Off. On the first video the 4X4 Lock was Not engaged and it could have been used. In general our Patriot with FDI is handier in ice (especially) and snow than our Cherokee 4X4 but the Cherokee does not have the limited slip differential.
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Unread 11-18-2009, 12:45 PM   #5
Tyler-98-W68
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You are correct, the above 2 videos I made for a seperate thread a while back highlighting the difference between the 4x4 modes.

The 4x4 lock mode is not vastly different from the non locked mode on a non FDII patriot, the BLD is not as agressive so it functions like an open diff.

Having said all the that MK 4x4/AWD system works awesome in the snow I love it.
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Unread 11-18-2009, 12:54 PM   #6
Tyler-98-W68
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One option you have to help increase traction is to go with different tires. Depending on the size of tires you have and how crazy you want to go, if you have the 17" tires there are some decent at tires available.

I went down to some stock 16" tires, 225/75/16 Goodyear Wrangler Territory tires, and it was night and difference in offroad situations.

Here's a video showing it in the muck:


[YT]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/1sFMjsZB7D0&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1sFMjsZB7D0&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/YT]
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Unread 11-19-2009, 01:26 AM   #7
Tony1911
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ZJTom, unfortunately nobody makes lockers for the Patriot, and Chrysler has deemed that only the FDII shall be equipped with the BLD system.

Different tires are a great help, certainly. Especially in Europe, as the stock tires for export Patriots are very much for asphalt use only. The problem still remains that the Patriot does not have a great deal of articulation, so you'll soon have one tire on each axle in the air. An anti-roll bar disconnect might help some, but AFAIK nobody has gotten around to doing that yet so no idea how much help it'll be. (Yeah, I've been meaning to look into this myself, but... Too many projects, not enough time, too damn lazy. )

The "low range" of the FDII Patriot is made with different gearing in the differentials. Swapping the gears would give an FDI Patriot the same crawl speed as an FDII, but this is again strictly theory - I am not aware of anyone actually doing this yet. There may be some incompatibilities between the FDI and FDII models. Depending on how fast you drive on the highways, the different gearing might hurt your fuel consumption and comfort during travel. At 120km/h (~75mph) and going uphill, the RPM is getting up there as it is...
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Unread 11-19-2009, 07:45 PM   #8
polished_heckle
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Come on Tyler, if you want to showcase the FDII capabilities, this is the video to do it with.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AZmtnmedicXJ View Post
As about as extreme as you can get with a Stock Patriot. Wheeling on the Broken Arrow Trail near Sedona AZ with my stock 08 Patriot FDII (Trail Rated) 4x4.

[YT]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/FRMXt9QCiyw&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/FRMXt9QCiyw&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/YT]
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Unread 11-19-2009, 07:51 PM   #9
Tyler-98-W68
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I totally forgot about that video, but yes it shows things off quite well.
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Unread 11-19-2009, 10:58 PM   #10
ZJTom
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Thanks for all the replies!
I have the FDI..

I plan to:
*get a 2" lift (in order to better fit the larger tires and get some more ground clearance)
*225/70/17 tires
*CB radio
*front tow hooks (or maybe make some shackle mounts)
*skid plates
......and somehow improve the traction within the drive train

Couple Questions:
1.Does the trail rated patriot actually have a higher suspension, or just bigger tires?
2.If I have traction control on, this engages the brake lock differentials ... or is it when traction control is off that they are engaged?
3.Is it possible to set up the FDI to have the BLD set up as the FDII? If so, what would this require?
4.What is the "crawl ratio" Jeep mentions on the trail rated version...just a different BLD set up, or different gearing?
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Unread 11-19-2009, 11:14 PM   #11
Tyler-98-W68
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The FDII has different springs and taller tires which contributes to the 1" of extra ground clearance.

BLD are engaged at all times even with the esp/traction control system off. However in a FDI i'm faily certain you would not be able to achieve what the above video shows.

Not sure if the FDII BLD would be able to be setup on a FDII it would require the FDII abs controller and/or computer.

The crawl ratio is the different gearing in the CVT transmission, which creates an overall lower gear. On the window sticker of my FDII it also states "brake lock differential" which would be the more agressive programming as mentioned before.

Off the top of my head I believe the non FDII patriots are 14-15:1.

Tow hooks are reltatively easy to install in the stock locations that the FDII patriots have.

The lift gives more ground clearance but it doesn't really increase the size of tires you can use, if you want wider tires spacers are a option although i'm not a fan of them. In terms of overall tire diamter, the biggest limitation is the spring perch on the front suspension and it stays in the same place regardless of whether you have a lift or not.

If I was you I would do the CB radio tires, skid plates and tow hooks first before the lift. Then see how you like it. I believe the biggest difference you would find offroad between FDII and FDI is when the tires lose contact with the ground, which happens alot due to limited articulation of the suspension.

You can make the Pat into a decent offroad machine, but nothing too crazy. You would be surprized what it can go through.

Here's a shot of my patriot:

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Unread 11-19-2009, 11:50 PM   #12
ZJTom
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Has anyone noticed a suspension travel gain or that it's easier to keep the whels on the ground with a lift?
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Unread 11-20-2009, 02:02 AM   #13
Tony1911
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While the spring perch on top of the tire does not move when the vehicle is lifted,the lift kit does create more space in the wheel wells, which is nice with bigger tires and full articulation. My 225/65/17 front right tire slightly rubs at full lock to the right, I'd imagine it would do it more if I didn't have a lift.

The lift kit does not increase suspension travel.

The FDI does not have the same Brake Lock Differentials as the FDII, regardless of which mode your ESP is in.
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Unread 11-20-2009, 08:57 AM   #14
ZJTom
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Has anybody replaced the normal patriot springs with the trail rated springs?

Are the shock sizes still the same on both trail rated and non trail rated...just different springs?
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Unread 11-20-2009, 11:31 AM   #15
miketmx
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Tony wrote: " My 225/65/17 front right tire slightly rubs at full lock to the right, I'd imagine it would do it more if I didn't have a lift."

I don't have a lift; Do you think the tire rubs because of the diameter at 28.5" or because of the width at 225 instead of the OEM 215/65/17. I can buy 225/60/17 Yokohama Geolander AT/S which are 27.6" in diameter in the U.S. but Canada seems to only have 225/65/17.
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