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Unread 12-31-2013, 02:51 PM   #31
DLTC86
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To end this never ending thread, there is only one way to find out. If someone has a spare FWD project Patriot/Compass and takes on the task of switching it over. Until then, good luck and keep a blog of your project as a scrapbook.

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Unread 12-31-2013, 03:12 PM   #32
tjkj2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHPATRIOT View Post
Sorry to burst your bubble but I have worked at dealers and I know how programming works.

If a vehicle has a certain set of options available to it as long as you have the correct modules, controls, etc... it can be flashed to let them work. I am not saying to do it just that it is possible.

Lets use fog lights as an example. If your vehicle doesn't have them, but they are an option on a different trim level or something like that( available on your vehicle type is the point ), you can install them and then have the flash done to activate them. It may require a different control module that has the programming for fog's but it can be done( have to do that on my Brother's new Super Duty - needs the fog's and a BCM for it to work factory ). I added the factory fog lights and controls to a Chevy Equinox as there was no GM Accessories kit for it. I had to add a BCM as my Equinox didn't come with fog's and the BCM in my vehicle didn't have the fog light option. Got a BCM that allowed fog's and the dealer did the flash for me and everything worked. The same can be said for other features. Seen it and done it. The key is what you want to do has to be something available for that vehicle. You can't add things never available to the vehicle. The OP wants to add 4WD. The Patriot comes in 4WD so if he added everything required it is "possible" the dealer could do the required flashes/activations to make it all work.

Now, it is possible that on a Patriot the 4WD stuff couldn't be added. Some vehicles allow for things that others don't. Like the way the Patriot is so limited for tire size changes with a flash. Other Chrysler vehicles can have a flash done using the tire dimensions and rev rate of the tire. Some vehicles seem more modifiable than others. It is also a very real possibility the dealer wouldn't be willing to do it. I am not saying anything other than I believe it may be possible to do it.

To say it can't be done as a blanket statement is just flat out wrong because it implies nothing an be done on any vehicle. Again, I am not advocating this be done by the OP. I have said repeatedly I would not do it. I do not believe it is 100% certain though that it can not be done. I would wager with enough money and time it could be.

I will say that your claims nothing can be done that isn't tied to the VIN( i.e. stock configuration )is just foolish though. You seem to be the one who doesn't know as much as you think about the programming.
Options like fog lights are not VIN specific and why dealers can flash for stuff like that.The OP's VIN is for a fwd so they can not flash for that.Basically he'd have to completely swap everything from a 4wd one to his fwd,that includes keys and all,then unless he reported the swap he would be committing fraud for driving around with computers with one VIN and his labeled VIN's as another.They simply would not do it for legal reasons and can not do it regardless.

Also your going about adding fogs to vehicles all wrong,in the last 10 years or so the vehicles have been coming with the same wiring harness and such but depending on options may or may not use all the connectors.In most cases adding fogs and having them work like OE is as simple as adding the fogs them selfs,add a fuse or 2,the switch(be the whole multi function switch or separate switch),and in some cases a dealer scan tool to unlock that option in the BCM.
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Unread 12-31-2013, 03:19 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkj2002 View Post

Also your going about adding fogs to vehicles all wrong,in the last 10 years or so the vehicles have been coming with the same wiring harness and such but depending on options may or may not use all the connectors.In most cases adding fogs and having them work like OE is as simple as adding the fogs them selfs,add a fuse or 2,the switch(be the whole multi function switch or separate switch),and in some cases a dealer scan tool to unlock that option in the BCM.
Your absolutely right about the fogs. My KK didn't come with them but I added a new headlamp that allowed it. All I need is a new stalk for the switch and add the wiring to the harness. Dealer flash and you're good to go.

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Unread 01-01-2014, 06:50 AM   #34
NHPATRIOT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkj2002 View Post
Options like fog lights are not VIN specific and why dealers can flash for stuff like that.The OP's VIN is for a fwd so they can not flash for that.Basically he'd have to completely swap everything from a 4wd one to his fwd,that includes keys and all,then unless he reported the swap he would be committing fraud for driving around with computers with one VIN and his labeled VIN's as another.They simply would not do it for legal reasons and can not do it regardless.

Also your going about adding fogs to vehicles all wrong,in the last 10 years or so the vehicles have been coming with the same wiring harness and such but depending on options may or may not use all the connectors.In most cases adding fogs and having them work like OE is as simple as adding the fogs them selfs,add a fuse or 2,the switch(be the whole multi function switch or separate switch),and in some cases a dealer scan tool to unlock that option in the BCM.
I am not going to keep arguing over and over with you. It is pointless. You know everything and no one else does. I give up you win so move on dude.

I am not doing anything wrong when it comes to fog's on the vehicles mentioned though. Man are you arrogant and a know it all. Wow. Only way to add them and have them work factory on the vehicles mentioned is exactly how I mentioned it. GM did not offer an accessory kit for the Equinox I had. Only way to add them and be factory was to buy the harness( not there pre wired ), the switch, fog mounts, fogs, relays/fuses, etc... and then a new BCM from the next trim level up( dealer had to activate them once it was installed )as fogs weren't available on my trim level so the BCM didn't have the option. On my Brother's new Super Duty the fog light kits COME with a new BCM.

Again, you assume only you know anything.

I am done arguing this with you. It is a waste of time.
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Unread 01-01-2014, 06:51 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LKWJEEPER View Post
Your absolutely right about the fogs. My KK didn't come with them but I added a new headlamp that allowed it. All I need is a new stalk for the switch and add the wiring to the harness. Dealer flash and you're good to go.

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He is right for SOME vehicles. They don't all come pre wired for options they don't have. Car mfg's save a lot of money by using cut down harnesses. Many MANY vehicles that do not have the harnesses there already. MANY. Some do but it is not all.
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Unread 01-02-2014, 09:00 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aroundincircles View Post
where does a rollover 4x4 come in? as a spare parts car?

The parts that would have to be switched over:
transmission
Front drive shafts
center drive shaft
rear diff
rear drive shafts
the rear suspension/wheel hubs (if even usable on a hypothetical roll over vehicle)
wheel speed sensors for the rear tires (and wiring)


and I'm sure there is more, that's just off the top of my head,

you might be able to switch over the ECU as well with the correct software... but not sure how it would work in the new car.
Yeah spare parts. I got the rollover for $200. I'll post an update in a couple weeks. Im going to start with all the big stuff and work my way to the electronics.

For everyone that keeps saying its 'too expensive', thanks for the recommendation. .. but I didn't ask how much it would cost. I asked what I would need.
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Unread 01-02-2014, 10:07 AM   #37
MWV247
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This is stupid. I guarantee if you got a 4wd parts car you could swap all the necessary parts to make it work. This is a sissy car though and no matter what you do it will always be a sissy car. Good luck and let the haters hate.
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Unread 01-02-2014, 10:51 AM   #38
tjkj2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHPATRIOT View Post
I am not going to keep arguing over and over with you. It is pointless. You know everything and no one else does. I give up you win so move on dude.

I am not doing anything wrong when it comes to fog's on the vehicles mentioned though. Man are you arrogant and a know it all. Wow. Only way to add them and have them work factory on the vehicles mentioned is exactly how I mentioned it. GM did not offer an accessory kit for the Equinox I had. Only way to add them and be factory was to buy the harness( not there pre wired ), the switch, fog mounts, fogs, relays/fuses, etc... and then a new BCM from the next trim level up( dealer had to activate them once it was installed )as fogs weren't available on my trim level so the BCM didn't have the option. On my Brother's new Super Duty the fog light kits COME with a new BCM.

Again, you assume only you know anything.

I am done arguing this with you. It is a waste of time.
Guess you missed the part "In Most Cases" which is not the same as "all of them" or the like wording.
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Unread 01-02-2014, 10:58 AM   #39
MikeHoncho88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northern_jeep View Post
I picked up a 2009 Fwd jeep patriot 2.4l automatic pretty cheap, and I want to do a conversion to 4x4.

Before I start, I wanted an insight in all the parts I would need. Including wiring and such.

Anyone wanna help me out?
Quote:
Originally Posted by northern_jeep View Post
Lets say that I have a 4x4 patriot that was in a rollover accident... so instead of trying to convince me to get rid of it and buy something else... lets play with the idea.

So the computer would have to be reflashed?
Quote:
Originally Posted by northern_jeep View Post
Yeah spare parts. I got the rollover for $200. I'll post an update in a couple weeks. Im going to start with all the big stuff and work my way to the electronics.

For everyone that keeps saying its 'too expensive', thanks for the recommendation. .. but I didn't ask how much it would cost. I asked what I would need.
You probably would have gotten a better response on this if your Original Post had mentioned you had a 2WD Patriot and a donor vehicle that was a 4x4 Patriot salvaged from a rollover accident.

So what parts will you need? Any parts that are damaged beyond use or worn out on your donor vehicle.

Want to post up pics of it so we can help you figure that out?

A documented build thread would be a very nice addition to the forum.
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Unread 01-02-2014, 11:01 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by MWV247 View Post
This is stupid. I guarantee if you got a 4wd parts car you could swap all the necessary parts to make it work. This is a sissy car though and no matter what you do it will always be a sissy car. Good luck and let the haters hate.
OP, i was mistaken. go ahead and do it, this guy guarantees it. if you fail, or lose out on a ton of time and money because of it, just contact MWV247 and ask him about his guarantee and how to get reimbursed.
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Unread 01-02-2014, 11:17 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MWV247
haha ok IRSmart, did you make that your username because everyone teased about how stupid you were growing up. You could have at least tried to use proper English and made it IMSmart or maybe you have some dark skin and should have been called IBSmart. Regardless it can be done, I guarantee you received a piss poor education and probably came from 2 parents that were first cousins. Its ok though because you used a google search to verify your logic about all things jeep related.
I thought it was an acronym for IndependantRearSuspension-mart
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Unread 01-02-2014, 11:29 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by NHPATRIOT View Post
Different conversation. Can vs will.
So if no one will how could it?

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Unread 01-02-2014, 12:32 PM   #43
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wow....

I think it comes down to the fact that the patriot (and any modern vehicle) is heavily controlled by computers. That even if you had the unlimited funds to swap hardware over, you would hit a HUGE road block with the software. Most people here (and my experience with 10 years of car tuning) the dealers are impossible to get to install software that didn't come with the vehicle originally. Too much liability (and often, you'll get the response that they cannot, because they don't know how and are not willing to learn) if you take it to a shop that will be able to do a custom program, your costs would be astronomical... at that point, regardless of your desires, you would be much better off buying a 4x4 vs doing the swap. Since it is available.


NOW if you were looking to do a solid axle swap. that's a different story, since you cannot just go out and buy one. If you're willing to spend the money I'm sure it can be done, but you'll have spend gobs and gobs of cash. Since you cannot use any part of the existing drive train. Unlike a liberty that was still rear wheel drive and had a correctly placed transmission, and you are just working on the front end. The patriot would need a new engine (or at least re-position the engine.) a new transmission, new drive lines, new break systems, transfer case, axles, suspension, etc. and software would have to be a custom tune job anyways since there is nothing available from the dealer. There i would buy a pat Super cheap that had a blown engine. And use that as a base. I would see if I couldn't put the new 3.2l v6 in there for kicks and giggles.
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Unread 01-02-2014, 04:13 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by LKWJEEPER View Post
So if no one will how could it?

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Until someone tries it and finds out for sure it can not be done we won't know. Sounds like the OP is going to give it a try.

There is a big difference between no one being willing to try something and that something actually not being possible.
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Unread 01-02-2014, 04:15 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by aroundincircles View Post
wow....

I think it comes down to the fact that the patriot (and any modern vehicle) is heavily controlled by computers. That even if you had the unlimited funds to swap hardware over, you would hit a HUGE road block with the software. Most people here (and my experience with 10 years of car tuning) the dealers are impossible to get to install software that didn't come with the vehicle originally. Too much liability (and often, you'll get the response that they cannot, because they don't know how and are not willing to learn) if you take it to a shop that will be able to do a custom program, your costs would be astronomical... at that point, regardless of your desires, you would be much better off buying a 4x4 vs doing the swap. Since it is available.


NOW if you were looking to do a solid axle swap. that's a different story, since you cannot just go out and buy one. If you're willing to spend the money I'm sure it can be done, but you'll have spend gobs and gobs of cash. Since you cannot use any part of the existing drive train. Unlike a liberty that was still rear wheel drive and had a correctly placed transmission, and you are just working on the front end. The patriot would need a new engine (or at least re-position the engine.) a new transmission, new drive lines, new break systems, transfer case, axles, suspension, etc. and software would have to be a custom tune job anyways since there is nothing available from the dealer. There i would buy a pat Super cheap that had a blown engine. And use that as a base. I would see if I couldn't put the new 3.2l v6 in there for kicks and giggles.
Actually, if the OP has a donor 4WD all he has to do is swap it ALL over to his 2WD and the dealer should be able to make it work without a lot of effort. Most dealers probably wouldn't even try but if you find one that does lifts and such I bet they would give it a go.

Before someone jumps on me yet again let me repeat I wouldn't try this. I wouldn't waste my time and money. When I want 4Wd I buy a 4WD. I think it is most likely going to fail. I will not rule the possibility of it being feasible out though until it is proven not to be possible. The OP may just surprise us all. Also, I wouldn't want to drive or ride in the vehicle.
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