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Unread 09-10-2006, 08:07 PM   #16
JeepInfoCenter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DogsJeep
The outcry for fuel economy does not mean the public wants a box on wheels with a great sound system; most of us want a sporty off-road vehicle that gets good gas mileage and a few new features. I'd be happy with my old 1991 jeep wrangler if it just got better gas mileage. I think jeep is missing the boat, give me a lighter off-road Jeep Wrangler with enough power to get on the highway and on the trails. The old Suzuki Samari (modified) does what jeep has not done. If I can tinker with my old 91 Jeep Wrangler and get 24 mpg hwy. For that matter I know of several old modified CJ's with V8 engines that get 30mpg. Why can't jeep spend some time building a Jeep that has fuel economy, performance and style? I think Jeep just needs to start thinking outside of the box.

As for the Compass,
The Compass just does not do it, bad blind spot, poor overall visibility, and I felt like I was in a coffin, true ground clearance is poor, overall a poor attempt to jump into the RAV4 market. And fuel economy is not consistent. If the Liberty and what's that other jeep, can't do it. Why even try with the Compass. Jeep needs to work on a power plant that fits the Jeep Wrangler and stick with it, and get better gas mileage though new technologies. There are things like Carbon, Fiberglass, Aluminum all blended with steel. If the bicycle industry and fishing industry can use these components for stronger lighter and safer construction why can't the automotive industry?
Thank you for the reply message. You make some good points. However, take the following quote from my previous communication into consideration:

"Sure, Jeep has always been known for its great off-roading capabilities, and will probably continue to be perceived that way for years to come. It's what's made it into somewhat of a 'niche' brand. However, as much as this may be the mindframe, a purely niche oriented brand can suffer in the long run. Now more than ever, there is a need for compact vehicles with utility-inclined features. The compact market is something that Jeep, or DaimlerChrysler for that matter has not spearheaded with models that will really compete. We all know the story of the sad fate of the Dodge Neon. Ever since the Dodge Omni, there hasn't been a DCX compact that has truly been able to compete.

Further, through my many forum travels I've noticed that there's an incessant domestic cry for improvement. Improvement of fuel economy, quality, sales, resale value, brand image. The 2007 Jeep Compass has filled a gap that Jeep enthusiasts were not aware existed. The fuel-economy gap. Coupled with affordability, this vehicle will definitely fare well in the mass market."

Now, in this sense, what I mean by improvement of brand image is "expansion". Sorry for not making it as clear in my post. Many of you may say, ok, expansion is fine, but expansion does not always equate to improvement. From an enthusiast's standpoint, you may be correct, however, from a business vantage point this is not the case. Irrespective of what model additions are enacted for the Jeep brand, the Jeep name and persona will not be compromised. On the other hand, I certainly do agree with you that the Jeep Compass will not be able to delve in to the same terrain as a Jeep Wrangler, but this does not mean that the vehicle is not a Jeep. Surely, the Jeep brand image is one that immediately evokes images of treacherous terrains, however, as mainstream demand dictates a company's direction, Jeep has embraced the more utilitarian and affordable wants of young buyers. Jeep is undoubtedly thinking outside of the box. This does not mean that our current product is sub-par by any means, it only means that Jeep is attempting to encompass (no pun intended) a wider audience.

Wider audience = Higher sales volume
Higher sales volume = Higher revenue
Higher revenue = More money for R&D
More money for R&D = More room for tinkering or assessing requests from smaller sales groups (enthusiasts)

Furthermore, you must remember that the Compass is a vehicle that has off-roading capability, thus, it does not wholly disregard what Jeep has long been known for. In addition, being obvious Jeep advocates, we all know from where the current stronghold of foreign influence on the market first began. Compact vehicles with excellent fuel economy. With the insane increase in fuel costs, this is a great phase to introduce a model like the Jeep Compass.

Cheers,

Miguel M.

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Unread 09-11-2006, 02:22 AM   #17
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ok you can keep the compass but you gotta bring back the XJ.....deal
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Unread 09-11-2006, 10:42 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepInfoCenter
Thank you for the reply message. You make some good points. However, take the following quote from my previous communication into consideration:

"Sure, Jeep has always been known for its great off-roading capabilities, and will probably continue to be perceived that way for years to come. It's what's made it into somewhat of a 'niche' brand. However, as much as this may be the mindframe, a purely niche oriented brand can suffer in the long run. Now more than ever, there is a need for compact vehicles with utility-inclined features. The compact market is something that Jeep, or DaimlerChrysler for that matter has not spearheaded with models that will really compete. We all know the story of the sad fate of the Dodge Neon. Ever since the Dodge Omni, there hasn't been a DCX compact that has truly been able to compete.

Further, through my many forum travels I've noticed that there's an incessant domestic cry for improvement. Improvement of fuel economy, quality, sales, resale value, brand image. The 2007 Jeep Compass has filled a gap that Jeep enthusiasts were not aware existed. The fuel-economy gap. Coupled with affordability, this vehicle will definitely fare well in the mass market."

Now, in this sense, what I mean by improvement of brand image is "expansion". Sorry for not making it as clear in my post. Many of you may say, ok, expansion is fine, but expansion does not always equate to improvement. From an enthusiast's standpoint, you may be correct, however, from a business vantage point this is not the case. Irrespective of what model additions are enacted for the Jeep brand, the Jeep name and persona will not be compromised. On the other hand, I certainly do agree with you that the Jeep Compass will not be able to delve in to the same terrain as a Jeep Wrangler, but this does not mean that the vehicle is not a Jeep. Surely, the Jeep brand image is one that immediately evokes images of treacherous terrains, however, as mainstream demand dictates a company's direction, Jeep has embraced the more utilitarian and affordable wants of young buyers. Jeep is undoubtedly thinking outside of the box. This does not mean that our current product is sub-par by any means, it only means that Jeep is attempting to encompass (no pun intended) a wider audience.

Wider audience = Higher sales volume
Higher sales volume = Higher revenue
Higher revenue = More money for R&D
More money for R&D = More room for tinkering or assessing requests from smaller sales groups (enthusiasts)

Furthermore, you must remember that the Compass is a vehicle that has off-roading capability, thus, it does not wholly disregard what Jeep has long been known for. In addition, being obvious Jeep advocates, we all know from where the current stronghold of foreign influence on the market first began. Compact vehicles with excellent fuel economy. With the insane increase in fuel costs, this is a great phase to introduce a model like the Jeep Compass.

Cheers,

Miguel M.

So, why don't you guys just put a JEEP badge on the 300c with AWD. While you're at it, you could put a JEEP badge on a PT Cruiser AND a Mercedes 4 Matic E class. Might as well to sucker in every kind of customer you can using the Jeep name. Then you can use the money to create more POS Compass things and then put fully independent suspensions on Wranglers to make the shame complete. I mean hey, while you guys are at it, just change Daimler-Chrysler to JEEP and put JEEP badges on everything, oh, and don't forget to change the grills, you gotta make them look like authentic Jeeps, right?
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Unread 09-11-2006, 10:58 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egalsim
So, why don't you guys just put a JEEP badge on the 300c with AWD. While you're at it, you could put a JEEP badge on a PT Cruiser AND a Mercedes 4 Matic E class. Might as well to sucker in every kind of customer you can using the Jeep name. Then you can use the money to create more POS Compass things and then put fully independent suspensions on Wranglers to make the shame complete. I mean hey, while you guys are at it, just change Daimler-Chrysler to JEEP and put JEEP badges on everything, oh, and don't forget to change the grills, you gotta make them look like authentic Jeeps, right?
So without, owning one or driving one, you consider the Compass to be a POS? Are you here to antagonize only or on what do you base your opinion? After all, this is a TECH FORUM and not an opion poll.
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Unread 09-11-2006, 11:31 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by grampsmopar
So without, owning one or driving one, you consider the Compass to be a POS? Are you here to antagonize only or on what do you base your opinion? After all, this is a TECH FORUM and not an opion poll.
My opinion was based on the quote provided by the Jeep information guy. It was only a suggestion. I guess the Compass isn't a complete POS, after all you can get groceries with it.
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Unread 09-11-2006, 12:02 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egalsim
My opinion was based on the quote provided by the Jeep information guy. It was only a suggestion. I guess the Compass isn't a complete POS, after all you can get groceries with it.
So, not having a low range makes it a POS? It also gets over 25 mpg over a 4000 mile trip at 80 to 85 mph with out ANY problems. When was the last time you went over the Rubicon or anything similar? If you don't like the Compass then why are you bottering to be in this Forum and give us your wonderful opinions based on other peoples posts?
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Unread 09-11-2006, 12:04 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egalsim
So, why don't you guys just put a JEEP badge on the 300c with AWD. While you're at it, you could put a JEEP badge on a PT Cruiser AND a Mercedes 4 Matic E class. Might as well to sucker in every kind of customer you can using the Jeep name. Then you can use the money to create more POS Compass things and then put fully independent suspensions on Wranglers to make the shame complete. I mean hey, while you guys are at it, just change Daimler-Chrysler to JEEP and put JEEP badges on everything, oh, and don't forget to change the grills, you gotta make them look like authentic Jeeps, right?

Sarcasm, when well done, can be an affective tool.

But when it misses the mark, it can come across more like whining.

The point made earlier in this thread about economic expansion is a good one.

Though like anything you have to be careful, past a certain point the law of diminishing returns will eventually set in and you'll wind up doing more harm than good.

Your example, because taken to such an extreme, looses some of its bite for this very reason. Your example is of brand dilution, which you obviously feel has already happened just because they've allowed a single FWD platform into the fold.

But remember, as already pointed out that platform is rather impressive when you look at cost vs. mileage vs. capability.

No, it's NOT a rock crawler, but then again the VAST majority of Jeeps built each year will never see rocks (unless the owner has a gravel driveway).

It does appear to be a decent, FWD/AWD platform with plenty of capability for use as a daily driver. The type of product that will bring more people into the brand and hopefully keep them around for future purchases.

I predict that if they are well built, the Compass and the Patriot will serve Jeep well without any significant brand dillution. But time will tell.
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Unread 09-11-2006, 03:41 PM   #23
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Now if the jeep compas looked like this...

If jeep would have introduced a shorter foxy open air package at a real price with the same gas mileage and a little beefer offroad package... now you might get some responce...

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Unread 09-11-2006, 04:00 PM   #24
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Pleasing 5% of the buying public won't keep them in business. But, yes, it is cool!
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Unread 09-11-2006, 09:03 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev M
Sarcasm, when well done, can be an affective tool.

But when it misses the mark, it can come across more like whining.

The point made earlier in this thread about economic expansion is a good one.

Though like anything you have to be careful, past a certain point the law of diminishing returns will eventually set in and you'll wind up doing more harm than good.

Your example, because taken to such an extreme, looses some of its bite for this very reason. Your example is of brand dilution, which you obviously feel has already happened just because they've allowed a single FWD platform into the fold.

But remember, as already pointed out that platform is rather impressive when you look at cost vs. mileage vs. capability.

No, it's NOT a rock crawler, but then again the VAST majority of Jeeps built each year will never see rocks (unless the owner has a gravel driveway).

It does appear to be a decent, FWD/AWD platform with plenty of capability for use as a daily driver. The type of product that will bring more people into the brand and hopefully keep them around for future purchases.

I predict that if they are well built, the Compass and the Patriot will serve Jeep well without any significant brand dillution. But time will tell.
Kev M,

Thank you for your incisive posts. Your scope of vision is one that would fare extremely well in the automobile industry. Specifically, your understanding of Jeep's new vision is commendable. Essentially, what Jeep is currently doing is branching outward with the hope of expanding their customer base. The same quality control and attention to detail that has for years gone into the production of the legendary Jeep Wrangler, will certainly be applied to the Jeep Compass and the Jeep Patriot.

Cheers,

Miguel M.
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Unread 09-11-2006, 09:04 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egalsim
My opinion was based on the quote provided by the Jeep information guy. It was only a suggestion. I guess the Compass isn't a complete POS, after all you can get groceries with it.
egalsim,

As for the dilution of the brand image, let me assure you that the mystique of Jeeps will more than likely never go astray. If anything, it will become more resplendent given the contrasting model availability within our lineup. In some respects, the automobile industry is akin to evolutionary theory. As the needs - on a mass scale - of consumers stretch beyond what's available, a company must adapt to keep up with the added demand or, in other words be "fit" enough to compete monetarily with the several diverse car companies that exist. Now, in this case, the "Natural Selection" would come from the consumer. The influence to adjust and re-design rests not only in the hands of the company, but also in the dynamic arena of mainstream consumer demand. The key is to identify what changes need to be made and put forth the effort to improve. The beautiful thing about this is that everyone plays an important role. It's not just a trial & error process as some enthusiasts would believe. Nothing is randomized. But as Kev M mentioned, it definitely is a sensitive process that only time can assess.

Keep desirable and successful traits, dispose of what is no longer marketable, create new vehicles to meet needs that haven't been met. Moreover, to make this transitional expansion a lasting and fruitful one, attention to improvement of existing models must not subside. Hence, why I assured you that the image of Jeep will not be lost.

Talk to you soon,

Miguel M.
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Unread 09-14-2006, 06:34 PM   #27
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The only reason why I bother to add a comment here is that I had considered buying one. I went and drove one as soon as it came out. As I mentioned I felt like I was in a coffin, it had get up and go, but it had too many blind spots and poor visibility up front. I felt like I was riding in a soap box car. And it lacked the refinement of a Rav4 from 5 years ago, let alone to the 2006 Rav4. If this is Jeeps answer to the RAV4 or Saturn Vue it's a half hearted one - fix the Liberty.

I did some checking around and you have been to several boards trying to prove or as you say "Educate" people on the different Jeep forums. You say the same thing. I am glad Jeep has someone going out and listening to what we say. Jeep is Iconic like McDonalds or Coke; New Coke did not do well - even to the point of a revolution. Bobbing heads and Karaoke just don't do it. It might for under 20's, but since I was 12 I wanted a Jeep Wrangler nothing else A CJ then a YJ both till they had over 200,000 miles. Now, I am getting a JK. Do a search on Goggle for "Jeep Compass Disappointment" not to be ugly but don't try to shovel this to a Jeep owner we just don't buy it.

I would love it if my new JK got the gas mileage that the Compass gets and it will when I get through tweaking it - and still have the power. My 91 YJ got 24 mpg with 35 inch mud tires, a 4 inch lift and at speeds over 80 without any vibration - remember 200,000 miles and still going. ......The point to this is if Jeep really wanted to increase its buyer spectrum and increase sales...... Build a Jeep Wrangler, Liberty with an engine with power - fuel efficiency and style. The Youth of America would love a TOPless 4x4 that gets good to great gas mileage, so would us old timers. I did some engine comparisons and the Technology is already here example: drop in an Audi engine into a Jeep Wrangler and then you get a jeep with over 305 and 32 mpg.
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Unread 09-14-2006, 06:46 PM   #28
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DJ, I can understand some of your points.

As counterpoints, you say don't try and shovel this to a Jeep owner. But how about a non-Jeep owner. I suspect that's a large portion of the customers they're going after with the compass.

Also, I'm interested in how you'd take a Wrangler and match fuel mileage of a Compass. I'm talking the claimed 26/29! That's the magic number I'm shooting for, the JUST shy of 30 on the highway.

I don't doubt your points that there are lots of American youth who want a topless JEep. But I bet there are just as many looking for other attributes too. Maybe a lot of them will be found in the Compass. Time will certainly tell.

I'm obviously optimistic.

Kev
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Unread 09-14-2006, 07:27 PM   #29
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Before I decided on get another Wrangler, I seriously weighed the pros and cons reviewed all of the RAV4 - Compass counter parts and drove the top 5. I almost bought a Rav4 after my drive in the Compass, but I still love the Jeep Wrangler and the JK's pricing and updates where too sweet.

If you compare the Rav4 or Saturn Vue to the Compass and get similar equipment. The Rav4 still wins hands down on pricing and capability. So, why would a non-Jeep buyer buy the Compass - what's the incentive?

Compass to Rav4 all things equal 23-26 mpg. Still the compass is smaller and does not have all of the refinement and power. A base Rav4 to a Compass Sport loaded.

If I could tweak my old 4I into getting 24 mpg why not in a newer engine? I do have a high performance mechanic in my hip pocket. Engines with Direct fuel injection have proved more power and fuel economy. But my point is Jeep could have done better it just seems to be a quick fix in a Toyota 1# market. That includes under 20...

I am not trying to be negative even though it may sound so, I was Disappointed to say the least and I waited a month for the Compass, now I have to wait another for a Wranger...
Take a look at the Future Jeeps section - any three would have been better than the compass.

Last edited by DogsJeep; 09-14-2006 at 08:07 PM..
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Unread 09-15-2006, 05:49 AM   #30
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DJ,

I've been comparing a lot of vehicles in this segment kinda hardcore for a month or two now.

The Rav-4 is the ONLY one that comes CLOSE to the fuel mileage COUPLED WITH a tow rating of 2k or better.

The RAV-4 does better than the Compass on tow rating because of the available V6 which, ironically, gets pretty much as good mileage as their 4, because of the extra gear in the transmission.

And if money were not an issue I'd buy the RAV-4, hands down.

HOWEVER, if you want the toys (heated leather seats etc) then the RAV-4 suddently prices at $30-35, when I've already been offered an equivalent Compass for $22,800.

Pretty damn big difference.

And an important one.

We all have our own priorities.

Mine are

AWD
at least 2k towing capacity (small boat)
Best fuel economy I can get my hands on
LOADED with options - meaning at minimum heated leather seats, sunroof, decent stereo.

Then there are other things.

Windows in the back that roll ALL THE WAY DOWN! Thank God for Jeep, cause a LOT of other manufacturers (from Chevy to Subaru) don't do this and it drives me nuts.

Anyway, it doesn't suprise me that not too many people are going to cross shop a Compass and a Wrangler. But just the fact that people are cross shopping a Compass and a Rav-4, or Vue or ???? is a good thing.

Again, I think Jeep is drawing from an additional market segment that way.

so why go with the Compass over the Rav-4 - the PRICE for one loaded with amenities is hard to beat.
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