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Unread 05-10-2006, 06:51 PM   #61
KingPrat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reswob
So what? KJs are similar in size to ZJs and you won't hear anyone calling them the 'rebirth of the ZJ'
1. KJs are nowhere near the same size as ZJs in comparison to Patriot vs. ZJ. I'm saying that they're nearly identical Maybe rebirth was the wrong word to use, but it was the only one that came to mind at the time.

2. how about an open mind about what Jeep is doing? Like I said before, they're trying to attract a new demographic. Jeep doesn't sell comparable numbers to other manufacturers (I know it's because they have less models. I'm saying this matter of factly). They want to get more, younger people into the Jeep brand. This creates a larger base for brand loyalty, and people will buy other Jeeps in the future. They still have the Wrangler, which in 2007 is even f***in nastier than any other Wrangler before it. They still have the offroad mentality in the brand. (ex: the Rescue concept) From an economical standpoint, Jeep is investing in their future with these 2 models, not destroying the Jeep name. They're making sure the Jeep name will be around when we're not.

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Unread 05-10-2006, 07:15 PM   #62
Reswob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingPrat
From an economical standpoint, Jeep is investing in their future with these 2 models, not destroying the Jeep name. They're making sure the Jeep name will be around when we're not.
It's not like Chrysler is going to axe Jeep for not selling as well as one of their brands with a bigger model lineup...

Look at GMC - all of their trucks get horrible fuel economy but they'll never start selling little cars because of it. (edit - yes, I'm aware GMC is not Chrysler-owned , just using it as an example)

Jeep has always been about tough, off-road capable vehicles, they shouldn't be trying to attract a new demographic (especially the demographic of people that should be buying Civics or Neons, etc). As for getting more, younger people into the Jeep brand, not many young people are going to be buying a brand new vehicle, and if they are it will probably be their parents buying them something a little nicer than a Jeep-badged Neon...
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Unread 05-10-2006, 07:27 PM   #63
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I completely agree with you with that last post. However, for those of us college students who don't rely 100% on their parents, a Jeep thats *comparable* to a ZJ for the price of a Neon is singing to me quite loudly

And don't think I'm trying to pick a fight with you, Reswob, I'm just voicing my opinions with everyone else. I'm always up for a good debate though
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Unread 05-11-2006, 07:13 AM   #64
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What means "comparable"- only the size? Then it's not problem to find such vehicle. I believe, that to compare some vehicles they must be similar in some more points.
You said: "The new 4cyl produces 175". So what? Power is nothing in car like this. Because you are saying only about peak power. I've seen 2.5 liter producing 500 hp, without turbocharger or nitro. But it is an engine that cannot be used in the daily driving, because it operates between 11K and 13K RPM's. And it is destroyed after several minutes of use. And, what more, it has bad torque characteristics.
The same is going to be with new jeep engines. I have Alfa Romeo 1.6 producing 120 hp. But it's not as durable as the 4.0 in jeep. I'm often visiting service, and after 120-150K miles this cars can only be wrecked. So while you are driving your third alfa romeo, you still have one jeep with 300K on it driving well. What's more, this 1.6 engine burns 9-10 liters of 98 octane fuel for every 100 km, while jeep takes about 14-16. Why? Because driving about 65 mph the jeep engine has 2000rpm, while alfa makes about 4000. And then it's like comparrison of 3.2 with 4.0 engine with delivered power and fuel economy. So, although alfa engine is great and I love driving it for fun, especially when accelerating with the sound and feeling of almost 7000 rpm, I see no point in buying such engine for daily driving.
This is the reality- you will be able to afford jeep, but it won't be jeep anymore. So why not buy Toyota Aigo and place Jeep sticker on it? You will have the gas milleage you desire, the price you want and "jeep" badged car. Just great.
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Unread 05-11-2006, 07:23 AM   #65
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This thing was awesome. 2 Hemis? I need it.
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Unread 05-11-2006, 07:26 AM   #66
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yeap, hurricane kicks a** But like rescue it will never be produced and sold, unlike compass, treo and other sh*t, that will be made in milions. God, I hate this marketing practices nowdays
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Unread 05-11-2006, 07:38 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mendelmax
yeap, hurricane kicks a** But like rescue it will never be produced and sold, unlike compass, treo and other sh*t, that will be made in milions. God, I hate this marketing practices nowdays
Someone on here hit it on the head though. I am not a "Jeep" customer. I have a 20+ year old Jeep, but I have never bought anything from the factory. It seems that they are trying their damndest to keep it that way.
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Unread 05-11-2006, 09:38 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mendelmax
You said: "The new 4cyl produces 175". So what? Power is nothing in car like this. Because you are saying only about peak power.
That argument goes for every single engine on the market today. Yeah, the 4.0 makes 195hp, but at 4600rpm! When was the last time anyone on this forum had their 4.0 revving that high? I believe my redline on the tach is 5g. I don't go anywhere close to it.

Yes, granted that max torque on the 4.0 is achieved at 2400rpm, but for a 4 cylinder to achieve max torque at 4000rpm is thinking in the same mindset. A 4cyl revs higher and faster, and can handle the higher rpms. a larger 6 or 8 cannot.

Hell, my 67 GTO gets 350hp, and it redlines at ~4000rpm! I don't think I've ever taken it anywhere over 3300. No engine in the world is designed to run at its peak hp rpm. It would ruin the engine.

And when I say "comparable", I mean it's a Jeep, and they're almost identical in size. The biggest size difference between the ZJ and the Patriot is that the ZJ is 4" longer. In my eyes, this is the closest thing that I can get through the Jeep brand that fits in my garage/wants/needs.
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Unread 05-11-2006, 09:44 AM   #69
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And please, don't think that the day I graduate from college I'm going to my Jeep dealer and buying one of these on the spot. Test driving, comparing, seeing if it's even something I want is in this equation. In a perfect world, I'd be doing that, but buying a WK. But for what I would want it's almost $33,000-$35000. This is appealing to me because of the price and size. I wish they would have the 3.7 or the Dodge Nitro 4.0 v-6 engines as options. As of right now, it doesn't look like it.
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Unread 05-11-2006, 10:26 AM   #70
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Quote:
That argument goes for every single engine on the market today. Yeah, the 4.0 makes 195hp, but at 4600rpm! When was the last time anyone on this forum had their 4.0 revving that high? I believe my redline on the tach is 5g. I don't go anywhere close to it.
In my Alfa this 120 HP is produced ad 6500 rpm. Have you ever revviev any engine that high? Exactly. The same with this 175 HP in patriot. You will never use it. And you will have to drive about 3K rpm, while in jeep you have 2K. And what's so great in this engine performance then? While I'm driving alfa romeo I'm not going under 2000 rpm ever, usually not eaven under 2500 to make it going. At the same speed I'm having 1500 rpm in jeep. So what's the benefit of smaller engine at high rpm over big engine on low rpm? None. The only thing you get from new engines is sh*tty torque curve. It is good for having fun- jeep never put a smile on my face in tight turn, while alfa on 5000rpm does. But who cares? It's not a toy- it's a way of transport.
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Unread 05-11-2006, 10:43 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimGoaty
That above picture is a horrible photoshop
That wasn't the point...

My point was they could've gone a different route when they updated it. What does almost everyone want to do to their Jeep?

Bigger tires, more gound clearance, more armor, more flex.... What does the new design cater to?

The Rubicon doesn't even com with 30's, and the skid-plates are still cheap quality. (I dented my gas tank skid with a pile of dirt.)

Better?
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Unread 05-11-2006, 11:02 AM   #72
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Little Lennon's remake:
"All we are saying, is give Jeep a chance!"
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Unread 05-11-2006, 02:47 PM   #73
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You mean these don't look good?






DC has tendency to always put crappy pictures of plain version of their vehicles.
Look at Liberty, look at G Cherokee, even Commander, while there are LTD versions, looking much shiny and useful, they slap ugly pictures on their websites.
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Unread 05-11-2006, 03:06 PM   #74
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Quote:
You mean these don't look good?
No, they don't
If I would like to have car like this (4x4 combi), I would go with Alfa Romeo Crosswagon- faster, better, beautifull, more fuel efficient.
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Unread 05-11-2006, 05:42 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingPrat
That argument goes for every single engine on the market today. Yeah, the 4.0 makes 195hp, but at 4600rpm! When was the last time anyone on this forum had their 4.0 revving that high? I believe my redline on the tach is 5g. I don't go anywhere close to it.
Haha, I had my 5.2L up to 4500rpms the other day, I don't think she liked it very much Anyway, it looks like you already have a perfectly good ZJ, so why even think about buying a Compass/Patriot? If you want to 'upgrade' get a lightly used WJ. For the price of a brand new economy car you can probably find a low mileage Overland.
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