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Unread 02-21-2012, 08:24 AM   #1
WingedScapula
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Hypermiling with a Jeep Compass/Patriot - Tips?

There's a movement of sorts called "hypermiling," which is basically driving using certain tips, techniques, and philosophies to get the most MPG out of your vehicle. Many of the tips seem fairly obvious, and include things like accelerating slowly, taking your foot off the accelerator the moment you see a traffic light go to yellow or red in front of you, avoiding the use of the heater or air conditioner until your vehicle's engine has warmed up, and so on.

With gas prices what they are, who wouldn't want to get some better mileage if it just meant modifying some driving habits?

Here's the weird thing: I tried implementing some of the techniques for about a week, and my mileage actually dropped by around 1-2 MPG compared to my normal driving. Specifically, I'd accelerate very slowly (although even before, I always accelerated slower than most drivers), and when taking hills, I wouldn't go beyond 2,100 RPM even if it meant that I was starting to crawl to around 25 MPH. Normally, I'll accelerate to maintain speed such that the engine will rev up to 2,600-2,900 RPM while climbing those hills.

Gramps has remarked before that the engine "learns" from your driving style and makes some adjustments accordingly, so my guess is that it's possible that what it has previously been trained to may be interfering with my efforts. On the other hand, I'm also wondering if the conventional hypermiling advice applies to cars with a standard transmission, instead of a CVT like we have with the Compasses and Patriots.

Gramps also remarked that the CVT engages in engine braking, which I've witnessed quite a bit. I find myself unintentionally decelerating even on some fairly steep hills much of the time.

Does anyone have any Compass- or Patriot-specific tips for increasing fuel efficiency based on driving style? And does anyone know how to better manipulate when engine braking occurs?

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Unread 02-21-2012, 11:07 AM   #2
w4rh4wk
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hahah i do things like when i see a red light i'll slow dont way back so by the time i get to the light its green. i'll throw it into Neutral going down hill, and if im stopped on a down hill ill throw it into Neutral release the brake when its time to move let the car roll and then put it into Drive. It worked REALLY well with my 08 compass Manual 4X4. i was averaging 28 MPG with mixed city and highway travel. With the 2011 auto, most i've seen was 26 MPG but, it was new in Oct and the engine wasnt broken in yet. So now its cold in CT and i have to wait until the spring to see what kind of MPGs i get.
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Unread 02-21-2012, 11:51 AM   #3
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Unread 02-22-2012, 06:19 PM   #4
WingedScapula
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Originally Posted by w4rh4wk View Post
hahah i do things like when i see a red light i'll slow dont way back so by the time i get to the light its green. i'll throw it into Neutral going down hill, and if im stopped on a down hill ill throw it into Neutral release the brake when its time to move let the car roll and then put it into Drive. It worked REALLY well with my 08 compass Manual 4X4. i was averaging 28 MPG with mixed city and highway travel. With the 2011 auto, most i've seen was 26 MPG but, it was new in Oct and the engine wasnt broken in yet. So now its cold in CT and i have to wait until the spring to see what kind of MPGs i get.
w4rhawk, this is now the second post you've made on this forum that has helped me tremendously - I'm glad you're here! I read your post before heading out this morning, and thought I'd give it a try.

What a difference! On a hill that I'd normally find myself slowly decelerating on, I picked up a nice amount of speed. On a straightway that I'd normally have to keep the accelerator lightly held down for, I was able to coast all the way while in neutral. The Compass actually glides beautifully, almost as well as my old Thunderbird (which felt like it had no friction anywhere at all)... as long as it's in neutral.

One thing I'm concerned with is extra strain on the engine by doing this. Generally if I throw it into neutral, it'll be that way for at least five seconds before I have to shift back into drive... but is there a risk of burning the engine out by doing this too often? Also, should this be avoided at higher speeds? While coasting at around 45 MPH I shifted into drive and noted that the engine initially stayed at its idle RPMs before shooting up to ~2,500 after about a second. Normally mine stays around 2,000. Is there anything to avoid or be aware of when shifting between drive and neutral?

But really, I am so impressed by this. Finally, I can reduce some of my losses on those hills! Thank you so much, w4rhawk!

Anyone else got any other tips on fuel savings?
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Unread 02-22-2012, 07:15 PM   #5
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You are very welcome! You can thank me by hitting the thumbs up on my reply you like. Hey what was the other post that I helped you with? Basically any car will waste the most amount of fuel when it has to start from a stop. When I applied this technique to my 98 Nissan frontier I went to 220 miles on fill up to 280! Not too shabby. Obviously you also have to cut down on flooring car.as well. Remember, The harder you accelerate the more gas you will waste.
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Unread 02-22-2012, 09:39 PM   #6
tjkj2002
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Putting your trans in "N" going down hill will actually use more gas then by keeping it gear.On step downhills if left in gear the PCM cuts all fuel off,it will not do that if your in "N".Besides it's kinda dangerous to put in in "N" going down steeper hills.

Hypermilers suck.It irks me getting stuck behind one and it takes them 10 miles to get to 30mph and all the while I'm upshifting/downshifting like mad behind them.Get to the posted speed limit in a decent amount of time or get off the road.
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Unread 02-23-2012, 09:50 AM   #7
w4rh4wk
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Originally Posted by tjkj2002 View Post
Putting your trans in "N" going down hill will actually use more gas then by keeping it gear.
Let me start by saying this, I am not saying in any way, shape, or form that you are wrong. However, in my car, while in gear, it continues to pulling forward hard with the brake applied going down hill. It is A LOT easier to brake in N and come to a full stop quicker vs in gear. For my car, it appears the fuel is not cut off. Also, when going down hill in N my RPMs drop by alot lower vs when in gear. So please help me understand how i'm using more gas while in N. I have alot of LONG hills in my area (some hills are literally 2 miles long). Its not like i'm pulling this out of the air, i have the data to confirm this driving style.
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Unread 02-23-2012, 10:49 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by w4rh4wk View Post
Let me start by saying this, I am not saying in any way, shape, or form that you are wrong. However, in my car, while in gear, it continues to pulling forward hard with the brake applied going down hill. It is A LOT easier to brake in N and come to a full stop quicker vs in gear. For my car, it appears the fuel is not cut off. Also, when going down hill in N my RPMs drop by alot lower vs when in gear. So please help me understand how i'm using more gas while in N. I have alot of LONG hills in my area (some hills are literally 2 miles long). Its not like i'm pulling this out of the air, i have the data to confirm this driving style.
Then your trans is not operating correctly.Modern FI engines and there programming know when your going down hill and if your foot is off the gas pedal it should enable engine compression braking which will cut off fuel to the engine.Basically turning your engine into just a air compressor that helps slow you down.Your engine rpm's will stay the same or increase but no fuel is being used.If you put it into "N" your just idling using fuel.

Your PCM and TCM are learning computers so it may take 10-14 days for it to relearn if you keep it in gear for those long downhills.With my Jeep I just kick it out of OD for those long downhills,foot off the gas pedal,and I'll majorly slow down without ever touching the brakes,even on steep declines.


Oh and duh it's easier to stop in "N" then in gear,your not fighting the engine torque and your trans/engine inertia.
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Unread 02-23-2012, 11:15 AM   #9
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Tjkj...maybe you should control your road rage or get off the road.

And maybe you should take your aggressions out on Jeep? They are the ones who posted mileage numbers on window stickers that are unobtainable. They are the ones that put a tiny little tank in the Patriot that requires you to filll up in 180 miles of city driving, 230 highway.

Not everybody has infinitely deep pockets to spend on gas. And personally, I hate the way the Patriot coasts normally. Feels like you got drag in the drive train, but then when you're on the brakes approaching a light, it feels like it wants to keep going forward. I'm all for mileage savings techniques.

However...I've heard many times in life it isn't good to coast in neutral with an auto(ish) tranny. Like dont owners manuals say not to tow them on the ground? I cant imagine AWD makes it any better freewheeling. I havent looked but if our owners manuals say to lift the whole thing up while towing, it might not be a goid idea to shift in and out of drive while moving.
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Unread 02-23-2012, 11:21 AM   #10
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Tjkj...maybe you should control your road rage or get off the road.

And maybe you should take your aggressions out on Jeep? They are the ones who posted mileage numbers on window stickers that are unobtainable. They are the ones that put a tiny little tank in the Patriot that requires you to filll up in 180 miles of city driving, 230 highway.

Not everybody has infinitely deep pockets to spend on gas. And personally, I hate the way the Patriot coasts normally. Feels like you got drag in the drive train, but then when you're on the brakes approaching a light, it feels like it wants to keep going forward. I'm all for mileage savings techniques.

However...I've heard many times in life it isn't good to coast in neutral with an auto(ish) tranny. Like dont owners manuals say not to tow them on the ground? I cant imagine AWD makes it any better freewheeling. I havent looked but if our owners manuals say to lift the whole thing up while towing, it might not be a goid idea to shift in and out of drive while moving.
If you can not afford the gas why are you driving it still? Should have bought a prius if your starpped for gas money.Live in your means.


I'd be tickled pink if I got 180miles out of a tank for city driving,this time of the year I get about 100 miles to the tank.

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Unread 02-23-2012, 11:31 AM   #11
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Because I bought it new. 5 years left of payments. Bought a lifetime warranty and it has since depreciated. Oh yeah and I need AWD with all the fun snowy mountain driving I do. I'm not going to stop every mile of road theres snow to put chains on and off a prius as is required when it snows here. Oh yeah and they have no cargo room and they arent American. And the batteries are expensive to replace....

Shall I keep going? I think I've made my point. Btw don't assume you perfectly understand everyone elses situation until you've walked in their shoes. You just sound like an ***.
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Unread 02-23-2012, 12:37 PM   #12
w4rh4wk
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well good old google gave me the answer
Quote:
2: Put the car in neutral when going downhill
Many people still believe that putting the car in neutral while coasting is an easy way to save some gas. In addition to this being an unsafe (and often illegal) way to drive, it turns out that there is often no fuel-efficiency gain by popping the car in neutral when going downhill.
Many newer computer-controlled fuel injection systems have something called “deceleration fuel cut-off.” Deceleration fuel cut-off does exactly what you think it would do; when the car is decelerating, or not accelerating, the fuel injectors are turned off. The engine continues to run by using the mechanical energy from the car’s transmission, axels, or wheels. So basically the engine is not receiving any fuel while going downhill or accelerating, which means that you won’t get any fuel-efficiency gains by putting the car in neutral.
but how the *BEEP* am i getting better MPGs then is cant be just the not stopping technique ... lol uugghh so strange

oops just saw your reply too... well who knows. its a MYSTERY lol.
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Unread 02-23-2012, 03:05 PM   #13
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Because I bought it new. 5 years left of payments. Bought a lifetime warranty and it has since depreciated. Oh yeah and I need AWD with all the fun snowy mountain driving I do. I'm not going to stop every mile of road theres snow to put chains on and off a prius as is required when it snows here. Oh yeah and they have no cargo room and they arent American. And the batteries are expensive to replace....

Shall I keep going? I think I've made my point. Btw don't assume you perfectly understand everyone elses situation until you've walked in their shoes. You just sound like an ***.
I don't sugar coat it.You can move then no need for AWD,eitherway you don't "need" it but you "want" it.I understand the money issue,been there and done that and had to sell a vehicle I really liked but was killing me with the high cost from maintenance and insurance at the time.Bought something that was in my means till I could get something again that I wanted and not care about the higher cost's.It's called life,you bought a Jeep in which it's name has never been associated with good mpg's.
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Unread 02-23-2012, 07:40 PM   #14
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STOP IT!!! There is no need to get in a pissing match over what works for one but not another. You're both right on several issues BUT I want to say that coasting down hill in neutral in some states is ILLEGAL and the MK owners manuals do not recommend it.
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Unread 02-23-2012, 09:45 PM   #15
WingedScapula
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Originally Posted by tjkj2002 View Post
If you can not afford the gas why are you driving it still? Should have bought a prius if your starpped for gas money.Live in your means.
Why stop at a Prius? Go all the way and get a Tesla Model S! If I had the money, I'd do it. That's a beautiful piece of machinery.

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You're both right on several issues BUT I want to say that coasting down hill in neutral in some states is ILLEGAL and the MK owners manuals do not recommend it.[/SIZE]
Hmm... I Googled around for more opinions on this and it seems that while some people are vehemently against it, those who do it report getting better gas mileage over it.

Honestly, it makes sense to me to utilize neutral - even if the engine is using no fuel while in gear and going down a hill, the Compass (and probably Patriot) engine exerts a ton of drag at speeds above 15-20 MPH, or so it seems to me. I can't think of any other vehicle that I've driven that dragged so heavily. Even if the engine is taking up more fuel in neutral than it would while in gear and going down a hill, I'm going pretty darn far in neutral whereas I'd find myself needing to step on the gas fairly early on if it were in gear. Actually, in some cases I need to keep the accelerator depressed even slightly as I'm going down the hill, which just seems silly. I don't know how much fuel is being used to keep the engine going in neutral vs. how much fuel I'm using to cover that given distance, though, so I can't say which one is really better.

The thing I'm most afraid of is wearing out the engine or some other internal part, though. If the owner's manual advises against it, then I guess it'll be back to stepping on the gas while going down hills for me!
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