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Unread 02-18-2014, 09:36 PM   #31
Thedawgshow
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Oh, by the way, I am really just a singer songwriter and starving artist who needs a day job and knows a little bit about cars!!!! Hahahahahaha!!!!!!!

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Unread 02-18-2014, 09:49 PM   #32
Thedawgshow
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Hey umbra, I am headed to bed, but like I said, if you can't find a guy to work with, give me a call at our Honda dealership, (we have a Jeep store too), and I will see if I can help you out. My number there is 317-359-4227. We have an 800 number too, I just can't remember what it is off hand. Ed Martin Honda (edmartinhonda.com) the 800 number is on there. I will be there at noon tomorrow. A little ways away being in Indiana, but like I said, I sell cars all over the world.
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Unread 02-19-2014, 07:19 AM   #33
IRSmart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umbra View Post
Oh, I see. So it is the "net MSRP", the actual MSRP and the ADVERTISED SALE PRICE that fluctuates from dealer to dealer along with the regional incentive programs and the "dealer prep".

It's so clear to me now. Gosh I feel silly.
sort of, see my post below
Quote:
Originally Posted by umbra View Post
Not really.
I posted the example of an identical Jeep to the one I want with the exception of the sound system. Still a 2k difference after subtracting that.

I do understand some of what you are saying, and I appreciate you trying to explain some of it.

I get that dealers need some wiggle room, I also get that an automated system sees only black and white.

But the fact remains that some of the Patriots I've looked at on these sites have a significant, unexplained mark up.

I'm going out to one of these dealers this weekend to look and drive. Maybe it will make more sense.

I strongly suspect that Jeep's site is including some incentives and discounts that the dealers won't advertise, but will include when someone is actually sitting there.

We'll see.
not quite, although you're getting closer to understanding it.

Jeep's website is showing you the "net msrp". that means the MSRP for the jeep, WITHOUT destination ($995) included, and MINUS the current $500 rebate in your area. that's why you're seeing $19,895 as an MSRP on Jeep's website.

now, for the sake of argument, let's say that you go to a dealership that has that car on their lot exactly as you equipped it, and you're looking at the window sticker. the window sticker will say that the MSRP will be $21,390. why? because at the bottom, they (jeep, NOT the dealer) have added $995 for destination (the cost of getting the jeep to the dealership) and the $500 rebate currently offered isn't on the sticker. they don't put the rebate on the sticker because that amount will fluctuate greatly throughout the year.

so, this explains the majority of the supposed "markup" that you're seeing. when you see the "close matches" on jeep's website, it will show the TRUE MSRP, with destination included, and without factoring in rebates. the dealerships in no way have control of advertised sale prices on jeep's website, jeep does this to give everyone an even playing field on the manufacturer's site.

now, if you were to follow the links for each of those cars, it would take you to the dealership's own personal website. on those sites, manufacturer's rebates and dealership discounts are taken into consideration, so you will see "MSRP" and "Internet price", which is the dealer's own personal internet price that they will sell the car for. you will only see this price on their website, and on vehicle listing sites like cars.com, autotrader.com, etc.

so to summarize, there are several prices you'll see for the exact same vehicle:
NET msrp (MSRP minus destination and incentives, this is what Jeep.com's configurator will show you)
TRUE msrp (this is what the window sticker of the car itself will show you, and what Jeep.com's vehicle locator will show you)
dealership's discounted internet price (you'll only see this price on the dealer's personal website, and vehicle listing sites)

nothing has to do with unexplained dealer markup. for a dealer to mark their prices UP instead of DOWN online would be suicide.

does this make sense now?
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Unread 02-19-2014, 07:21 AM   #34
IRSmart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thedawgshow View Post
Generally 10% depending on manufacturer. besides rebates, generally speaking, all other discount is given by the dealership.

What did you do for the government. I jumped out of planes and shot 155MM rounds down range for a few years. Sure didn't pay enough for all the sand I had to eat.
you work at a Honda dealership and think that new cars have 10% markup I would KILL for 10% markup, i'd make the kind of money that people think we do
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Unread 02-19-2014, 09:51 AM   #35
umbra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thedawgshow View Post
Generally 10% depending on manufacturer. besides rebates, generally speaking, all other discount is given by the dealership.

What did you do for the government. I jumped out of planes and shot 155MM rounds down range for a few years. Sure didn't pay enough for all the sand I had to eat.
Mostly annoyed drunks, thieves, wife beaters etc.
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Unread 02-19-2014, 10:18 AM   #36
Thedawgshow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRSmart View Post
you work at a Honda dealership and think that new cars have 10% markup I would KILL for 10% markup, i'd make the kind of money that people think we do
Hahahhahaha!!!!! Oh, I work at a Honda dealership now, but have been a salesman, new car manager and created a commercial department and ran it for years at a Ford dealership also. As stated before, we also have a Chrysler Jeep Dodge dealership, GMC/Buick dealership, Toyota, Nissan, Cadiallac, Chevy and more.

Been in the business off and on for many years in between hitting the road singing and playing my music and such.

As I stated before, it was in general that new cars have a 10% mark up from Net/Net/Net, but some have less and some have more.

Also, with the mess that happened back in 08 with the industry, everything has and is changing in the industry as you already know.

Once again though, autos have less percentage of mark up than any other product out there in the market. Yet everyone loves thier Nike shoes and thier Iphon, but hates car salesmen.

Like I said too, thanks to KBB and edmunds and other companies that make millions on telling everyone how not to let me make dime on cars, it is hard for anyone to make any money selling cars, and shows anyone our cost on cars. It is no big secret.

The very worst thing is dealers now compete with dealers of the same brand instead of competeing with other brands. In Indianapolis, we have 5 Honda dealers. I am not competeting for price against a Chevy or Toyota dealer, but against the other 4 Honda dealers in the area, and some just whore out everything. The service of really showing people cars and how they work is disappearing, and cars are more and more getting more complicated.

You all have a great day, and I sure hope this guy will find someone he likes, that will give him the time and attention he deserves and make him one of the happiest Jeep owners out there!!!!
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Unread 02-19-2014, 10:20 AM   #37
Thedawgshow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umbra View Post
Mostly annoyed drunks, thieves, wife beaters etc.
Law officer for local government, state or an old fashioned G-man?

Hey, did you go to edmunds and KBB? There are a lot of misgivings out there about cars, and these sights can do a little bit about straightening everything out.

Let me know and give me a call if I can help.

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Unread 02-19-2014, 12:26 PM   #38
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I'm not that far from Indy, and the wife wants a Pilot...hmmmm.

Just a local Barney.
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Unread 02-19-2014, 12:30 PM   #39
Thedawgshow
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Originally Posted by umbra View Post
I'm not that far from Indy, and the wife wants a Pilot...hmmmm.

Just a local Barney.
New pilots are in REAL short supply right now, but just let me know when and what type. I would be more than happy to help!!!
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Unread 02-19-2014, 12:32 PM   #40
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Will do.

PM me your dealership info if you want. Gonna be a few weeks, sorting through some issues.

Edmunds true market value for a 2014 Latitude 5 speed 2.0 $20,497
2014 Sport 5 speed 2.4 $18,445

Edmunds also says the sticker price for these two models should be 19-21000 ish, not the 23-26 local dealers are asking.
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Unread 02-19-2014, 01:30 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Thedawgshow View Post
New pilots are in REAL short supply right now...
No kiddin'? My local dealer has 60 on his lot.
http://www.bianchihonda.com/new-cars...ws-10/index-1/
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Unread 02-19-2014, 05:19 PM   #42
Thedawgshow
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No kiddin'? My local dealer has 60 on his lot.
http://www.bianchihonda.com/new-cars...ws-10/index-1/
Are you willing to dealer trade any to me? I sure could use them and Odysseys.
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Unread 02-19-2014, 05:25 PM   #43
Thedawgshow
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No kiddin'? My local dealer has 60 on his lot.
http://www.bianchihonda.com/new-cars...ws-10/index-1/
Never mind, you are all the way on the east coast.
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Unread 02-19-2014, 05:42 PM   #44
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Never mind, you are all the way on the east coast.
How is western PA all the way on the east coast?
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Unread 02-19-2014, 05:59 PM   #45
Thedawgshow
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Originally Posted by festerw View Post
How is western PA all the way on the east coast?
I'm sorry. I thought I saw Virginia when I clicked on it. Still a little far for dealer trading.
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