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Unread 05-18-2012, 09:06 PM   #1
rivalarrival
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Hill Start Assist

Hill Start Assist has been driving me mad!

HSA holds the brakes on for about 3 seconds if you're on a hill and come to a complete stop. For automatic transmissions, it engages on an 8% slope; for manual, at 3%.

Kudos, Jeep engineers, on the effort. I think it will help me teach the woman of the house to drive stick. But damn, the implementation needs a little work.

I - with a couple decades of experience in the Way of the Clutch - have stalled out and peeled out more times in the past 5 days in my brand-new Patriot than I have in the past 5 years in every other vehicle I've driven.

Driving around on fairly level ground, all day, I discover where I need to set the throttle and clutch to get rolling. Then I try to get started from a 3% grade. I apply that throttle and clutch, and immediately stall out, as if I had the e-brake set. Whoops! The next time, I'm a little slower on the clutch, and a little faster on the throttle, but I haven't yet overcome the brakes activated by the HSA, so I give it even more gas, then even more. Then, that bastard HSA slips the brakes off, and SCREECH, I burn the tires! I feel like I'm 12 again, learning how to drive Granddad's tractor!

Fortunately, those Jeep engineers did something incredibly smart: They programmed an "Off" button for that evil "feature"!

Quote:
If you wish to turn off the HSA system, follow this procedure:

1. Start with the engine off and vehicle in PARK (automatic transmission) or NEUTRAL with clutch out (manual transmission) with wheels straight. Apply parking brake on manual transmission vehicle.

2. Start the engine.

3. With the engine running, the brake applied, and the clutch out, rotate the steering wheel 180° counterclockwise from center.

4. Press the ESC OFF switch four times within twenty seconds.

5. Rotate the steering wheel 360° clockwise (180° clockwise from center).

6. Cycle ignition switch OFF then ON.

7. If the sequence was completed properly, the “ESC Activation/Malfunction Indicator Light” will blink several times to confirm HSA is off.

Steps 1-7 must be completed within 90 seconds to turn off HSA. Repeat steps 1-7 to re-enable HSA functionality.
To the Jeep engineers reading this, it's a good start. I will use it when teaching someone to use a manual transmission.

You know what would be really useful? A button to actuate this system when needed. Press and hold the button while stopped, and the brakes actuate. Release the button, and the brakes release. Press it again, they re-engage. Get above 2-3mph, and the button is disabled.

Barring that, how about a way to tune the system? I think I'd like it at an 8% grade, and if it only held the brakes for a moment.

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Unread 05-19-2012, 07:04 AM   #2
Gramps
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Thanks for the info! Is that new on the 2012 or 2011? I just don't recall it on the earlier ones. I'm sure that I would have stalled out and spun my tires just like you did, my first Jeep was a Model A and you HAD to drive it, no cheating with electronics, ha, ha.
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Unread 05-19-2012, 07:02 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gramps View Post
Thanks for the info! Is that new on the 2012 or 2011? I just don't recall it on the earlier ones. I'm sure that I would have stalled out and spun my tires just like you did, my first Jeep was a Model A and you HAD to drive it, no cheating with electronics, ha, ha.
This is on a 2012.

I don't mind cheating with electronics, I just want the electronics to do what I tell them to do, when I tell them to do it. I'd rather they didn't try to guess what I was trying to do.
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Unread 05-21-2012, 08:58 PM   #4
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Mines a 2010 and it has it as well, Doesn't drive me nuts it does take some getting used to. Now I barely notice it. I am just so glad that it has a 5 speed less and less jeeps with manuals out there. Wrangler and the Patriot and Compass.
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Unread 05-22-2012, 12:53 PM   #5
catndog
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question on HSA

I got my new 2012 patriot last Friday and as this is the first new car after 15 years I thought I'd make myself familiar with all the new stuff cars have in them nowadays. So I have the base model / CVT transmission, but it has the Security and Convenience group (but not the FDII off road capability "trail-rated") which is odd as when you try to build your Jeep on the website you can only get the Sec&Conv group in connection with the off-road capability.
I went through the features of the EVIC and the HSA programming option is missing. Reading through the Jeep handbook I see that HSA is only on a manual5dr or on the off-road transmission so it would not be equipped in my car. BUT ... the window sticker for my car clearly states Hill Start Assist. So is HSA something that a CVT has automatically and it is not programmable in the EVIC because you can't turn it off or is the listing of this feature on the Window Sticker simply stating it wrong? Anybody any insight into this?
If I missed some information that is necessary to answer the question, please let me know.
Other than this little stumper I am super happy with my Patriot!
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Unread 05-22-2012, 08:01 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catndog View Post
I got my new 2012 patriot last Friday and as this is the first new car after 15 years I thought I'd make myself familiar with all the new stuff cars have in them nowadays. So I have the base model / CVT transmission, but it has the Security and Convenience group (but not the FDII off road capability "trail-rated") which is odd as when you try to build your Jeep on the website you can only get the Sec&Conv group in connection with the off-road capability.
I went through the features of the EVIC and the HSA programming option is missing. Reading through the Jeep handbook I see that HSA is only on a manual5dr or on the off-road transmission so it would not be equipped in my car. BUT ... the window sticker for my car clearly states Hill Start Assist. So is HSA something that a CVT has automatically and it is not programmable in the EVIC because you can't turn it off or is the listing of this feature on the Window Sticker simply stating it wrong? Anybody any insight into this?
If I missed some information that is necessary to answer the question, please let me know.
Other than this little stumper I am super happy with my Patriot!
With an automatic, I don't think I'd notice it, at least not on-road. In fact, I think it might be pretty useful in an automatic transmission.

You can try the steering wheel dance I posted; if the ESC lamp flashes rapidly when you do, I'd think that it has it.
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Unread 05-24-2012, 07:56 PM   #7
tyler711
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When I first got my 2010, I tried to like this feature. I gave it a month or two but ended up having to turn it off for the same reason as you -- it wasn't precise enough. It would hold the brakes a little too long, resulting in either a lugging engine or a quick start when they released.
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Unread 05-24-2012, 08:13 PM   #8
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I dont see the benefit of this on an automatic transmission. When you start the vehicle it shouldnt move anywheres because its in park. And when you put it in gear to take off your foot is on the brake thus keeping it from rolling. Maybe im not fully understanding how the system works and what the soul purpose of it is
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Unread 05-25-2012, 05:59 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraxen View Post
I dont see the benefit of this on an automatic transmission. When you start the vehicle it shouldnt move anywheres because its in park. And when you put it in gear to take off your foot is on the brake thus keeping it from rolling. Maybe im not fully understanding how the system works and what the soul purpose of it is
It's for when you move your foot from the brake to the gas pedal to get rolling. Picture yourself headed up the steepest hill you can find. Now, stop. When you go to start again, you're going to find yourself rolling backwards a bit when you come off the brake. The HSA holds the brakes on for a few moments after you remove your foot from the brake pedal, preventing the roll-back.

There's a bit of a benefit on automatics, and it's fairly unobtrusive. It would only operate on fairly steep hills (8% slope), so not very often in most locales. Furthermore, all you'd notice with an automatic transmission would be a little bit of a lag between pressing the gas and getting rolling, and you'd most likely chalk it up to the steepness of the hill.

On a manual, it's set to operate at a 3% slope, so it engages much more frequently, and on slopes that are shallow enough to be thought of as "flat". And it does so silently - there's no warning light indicating that it will engage the next time you take your foot off the brake, nor is there any way to immediately override it or engage it manually.
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Any gas can be a knockout gas, when you wrap a steel cylinder around it and beat someone with it.

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Unread 03-19-2013, 08:03 PM   #10
vtcableman
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help - no esc off button

my compass was a base model with few extras - I have 4wd, basic radio with blue tooth and I have no clue where an esc off button would be or an alternative in my case - has anyone figured out how to disable hill assist without that button? thanks
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Unread 03-29-2013, 05:59 AM   #11
rivalarrival
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtcableman View Post
my compass was a base model with few extras - I have 4wd, basic radio with blue tooth and I have no clue where an esc off button would be or an alternative in my case - has anyone figured out how to disable hill assist without that button? thanks
Electronic Stability Control. It's standard on all Compasses and Patriots, so you should have it.

In my almost identically equipped Patriot, it's in the center console, to the left of the 12v power outlet, in the same button-panel as the hazard lights. It's the second button from the left in this picture:
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We work together every damn day. --Jon Stewart

Any gas can be a knockout gas, when you wrap a steel cylinder around it and beat someone with it.

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Unread 04-01-2013, 10:21 PM   #12
firstegg
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Hsa

I was dreading relearning the hill start dynamics. Hadn't drove a stick in like 15 years. Tonight, I found a steep hill, got ready for the dance of shifter, clutch, and accelerator, and was shocked I didn't roll back! Amazed and amused, I climbed up, no stress, no smoking clutch plate!

I was worried that I had managed to 'break' something in the 700 miles I drove since I got it new of the lot. Was this a thing, or did I fubar something? The manual DVD is in the computer at work, and I don't recall anything in regards to that....imagine my relief when I saw this thread! It -IS- a thing! Need to read manual a bit more. Really would like a printed hardcopy...
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Unread 04-02-2013, 03:31 AM   #13
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Go here and down load an owners manual to your computer. They're free.
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Unread 04-03-2013, 08:46 AM   #14
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Thanks for the link! this forum is the bomb!
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Unread 04-04-2013, 08:55 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstegg View Post
I was worried that I had managed to 'break' something in the 700 miles I drove since I got it new of the lot. Was this a thing, or did I fubar something? The manual DVD is in the computer at work, and I don't recall anything in regards to that....imagine my relief when I saw this thread! It -IS- a thing! Need to read manual a bit more. Really would like a printed hardcopy...
PM me your VIN.
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