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Unread 10-10-2006, 04:52 AM   #61
Gramps
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Kev,

We all know that Darwin's theory is wrong when it comes to Homo Sapiens, the dumb just breed more, there-by increasing their numbers in the electorate, getting themselves into office and creating laws that will protect themselves from their own stupidity. You don't have to pass an IQ test or even read English to vote . Be leery of stupid people in large numbers.


Now back on topic: we've got rain predicted for tonight and tomorrow with a cold front coming down from the Great White North tomorrow night. Temperatures dropping to the high 20's and a chance of snow. I bet we'll have some ice too! Oh, boy, yippee, skippee. Winter is starting early.

And people question why we would want something that was more Jeep like than car. oye vey!


Last edited by Gramps; 10-10-2006 at 05:20 AM..
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Unread 10-10-2006, 07:49 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grampsmopar
Kev,

We all know that Darwin's theory is wrong when it comes to Homo Sapiens, the dumb just breed more, there-by increasing their numbers in the electorate, getting themselves into office and creating laws that will protect themselves from their own stupidity. You don't have to pass an IQ test or even read English to vote . Be leery of stupid people in large numbers.

The theory is fine, the problem is that we keep the dumb one's alive AND allow them to breed. Stopping either one would change the trend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grampsmopar
Now back on topic: we've got rain predicted for tonight and tomorrow with a cold front coming down from the Great White North tomorrow night. Temperatures dropping to the high 20's and a chance of snow. I bet we'll have some ice too! Oh, boy, yippee, skippee. Winter is starting early.

And people question why we would want something that was more Jeep like than car. oye vey!

Looking forward to your report.

I've had the Baja in the rain already, but I'll thankfully have to wait a few months for snow!

K
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Unread 10-10-2006, 11:40 AM   #63
lupinsea
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Hey guys, first time popping into the Compass forum and this thread caught my eye.

A bit late but thought I'd offer some background on the article posted earlier. Tillamook State Forest has some pretty intense trails. Things that would be very challenging for even modified Wranglers. I highly doubt they took the Compass on those trails. Most likely they traversed the forest on the logging roads. Cool. It's what the Compass was focused on.

When they hit the dunes it was at Sand Lake ORV park as noted in the article. It's a place where people can legally drive their off-road toys on the dunes and on the beach. There is a 1-2 mile stretch of beach with a broad 1/2 - 1 mile wide sliver of sand dune that cuts back into a low-lying forested basin about 4 miles. There's a mile+ long flat area that's very much like a mini-bonneville salt flat type area. Then the sand gradually climbs up a 80 ft tall mound and drops off steeply to form "The Big Bowl". Beyond this it gradually climbs again to a 50 ft ht, drops off and then stretches up to the rolling dunes to the NE (inland). In the zone where the sliver of sand meets up with the beach is a series of grassy dunes with all manner of trails cut through them. The fringes of the dunes and in these grassy areas would be where the Compass would get caught up and perhaps stuck.

I've been going down there often over the last 6 years. First with my 66 hp, slow-as-snot Suzuki Samurai and then with a custom built Sandrail. Now, what works well there would be light weight vehicles with reasonably good ground clearance. I suspect the compass would indeed to well. I would have loved to see just how well it did. There are some big flat areas, some rolling dunes. . . and a BIG sand bowl. If they stayed in the main part of the dunes they'd be fine, but if they got off onto the sand trails through the grasses or on the fringes they'd run into problems.

Here are some photos from Sand Lake ORV park:



The Big Bowl. Those dark specks you see are trucks, Jeeps and other regular cars.



An overview of the grass trails.



Even my Samurai could throw sand at 10 mph.






Close-up view of the grass trails, it's pretty smooth here.



Oh, and what I eventually built for myself.


I seem to remember reading a comment in this thread about a comparison to rally type cars like the Subaru STI or the Evo. . . . um, no.

I've driven those cars and I can tell you there is so much more under that sheet metal that would simply blow the Compass away without the cars even thinking about it. The grip those cars have in phenominal. . . just unbelievable. And the 300 hp turbo charged engine simply launch those cars down the road. They are on-par with Porsche 911s, S2000s, and faster than 350Zs, Mustangs, and Camaros. I doubt the 172 hp AWD Compass is. Coupled with outstanding shocks and some massive, HD brakes and the STi and Evo not cars to be taken lightly. I don't care what's done to the Compass but there's simply no comparison. And this is coming from a guy who would rather get just about any other car than the STI or Evo. They're not my cup of meat. But I do respect thier performance potential. They are incredible machines.

Glad to see the Compass is doing well and it sounds like it's a good match for what the owners here are looking for. I hope it does well. Always good to hear directly from people who have driven the car.
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Unread 10-10-2006, 11:55 AM   #64
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luminsea,

Thanks for the post, pics and info

I never made it up to the northern coast while I was there, just So Oregon and No Cal. NICE rail by the way, my kind of toy but a little cold in the snow.

Thoughts about the Rally: the 300hp turbo 2.4 out of the Caliber SRT, all sealed underneath, CVT2L and a bunch of stuff that I haven't even dreamed of I'm sure.
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Unread 10-14-2006, 05:32 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grampsmopar
Kev,

Now back on topic: we've got rain predicted for tonight and tomorrow with a cold front coming down from the Great White North tomorrow night. Temperatures dropping to the high 20's and a chance of snow. I bet we'll have some ice too! Oh, boy, yippee, skippee. Winter is starting early.

And people question why we would want something that was more Jeep like than car. oye vey!
Well this was a non event for us. Yea, the cold did it's thing on my pumpkin patch (26 degrees) but most of the moisture never came here so no snow really. The 30 - 40 mph wind for 3 days running did a number on my mpg, 22.75! The salvation from that is gas is down to $2.199, YIPPEE! It does look like Detroit to NY got hit pretty hard. Any feedback from over there?

Last edited by Gramps; 10-14-2006 at 06:10 AM..
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Unread 10-16-2006, 07:43 PM   #66
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I just would like to kindly ask for a few of you to stop comparing the Compass to other AWD cars like the Impreza WRX and the EVO, because there is no comparison, like Lupinsea said. The Compass and true rally inspired cars have about as much in common when it comes to the suspension/brakes/AWD as a Cherokee with 4wd Full Time has. Yeah they put power to all 4 wheels and have an engine and doors, but that's about it.

And Grampsmopar, I really really do not understand why you're telling people to buy American cars when you said yourself that they're basically junk compared to their Japanese competitors. GM, DC, and Ford aren't losing tons of money because the Japs ate their babies and raped their wives, they're losing money because people are figuring out that the Japanese can build a higher quality car that will last longer, and that the Big Three's Rubbermaid, cheap plastic, ugly interiors and terrible reputation just can't compete. Don't you love Capitalism?
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Unread 10-17-2006, 01:58 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyleyF
And Grampsmopar, I really really do not understand why you're telling people to buy American cars when you said yourself that they're basically junk compared to their Japanese competitors. GM, DC, and Ford aren't losing tons of money because the Japs ate their babies and raped their wives, they're losing money because people are figuring out that the Japanese can build a higher quality car that will last longer, and that the Big Three's Rubbermaid, cheap plastic, ugly interiors and terrible reputation just can't compete. Don't you love Capitalism?
Maybe I mis-read my own stuff. When did I say that American cars are junk? Maybe you could quote me on that so that I can see if it was taken out of context. They do different things very well, better gas mileage is not one of those things. I did say that the way the Japanese got a foot hold in the US was to ORIGINALLY sell a lot of cheap junk and then went to quality products and they're beating us at what USED to be our game. It's a tough market out there and almost all of the foreign competitors out there get better gas mileage and there is a lot of high tech that's gone into them. I'm not denying that I'm pro-American manufacturing (let me know if there's something wrong with that, too) but, there are certainly many times when American products can't compete, for whatever reason.

And as far as comparing a Compass to one of those high end toys...well, people can dream can't they?

And "ate their babies and raped their wives"? Where does that come from?

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Unread 10-17-2006, 05:57 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grampsmopar

And as far as comparing a Compass to one of those high end toys...well, people can dream can't they?

High end toys?

WRX (or Baja Turbo) or EVO is only about 25k

I wouldn't call them high end.

Anyway, I don't know how much of a comparison has been made, except to suggest that is possible that there is some platform similarities (driveline, basic powertrain minus gobs of modifications).

Kinda like the Wrx vs the Imprezza.
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Unread 10-17-2006, 06:02 AM   #69
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Sorry about the wording. Almost anything that's a "special purpose" is hi end and out of my budget. Like the new Challenger, but I'm hoping to be able to sacrifice for that. Guess it all depends on your priorities.
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Unread 10-17-2006, 03:00 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grampsmopar
Maybe I mis-read my own stuff. When did I say that American cars are junk? Maybe you could quote me on that so that I can see if it was taken out of context. They do different things very well, better gas mileage is not one of those things. I did say that the way the Japanese got a foot hold in the US was to ORIGINALLY sell a lot of cheap junk and then went to quality products and they're beating us at what USED to be our game. It's a tough market out there and almost all of the foreign competitors out there get better gas mileage and there is a lot of high tech that's gone into them. I'm not denying that I'm pro-American manufacturing (let me know if there's something wrong with that, too) but, there are certainly many times when American products can't compete, for whatever reason.

And as far as comparing a Compass to one of those high end toys...well, people can dream can't they?

And "ate their babies and raped their wives"? Where does that come from?
What kind of Japanese cars were junk back in the day? I definitely see way more 1980's Hondas and Toyotas still chugging around than anything from an American manufacturer. I'm not going to deny that back in the 50's and 60's the USA put out some fine automobiles, but the Japanese have always been putting out great cars. In the late 60's they had this beast: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...OTA_2000GT.jpg and you can't forget about the Datsun 510 and 240/60/80Z sports cars that were worlds ahead of anything we had here, except for the Corvette maybe.

Maybe you're thinking of Korean cars such as Kia and Hyundai, which until about 8 years ago were absolute junk. But even now, they're catching up and even surpassing what the domestic MFG's have to offer. Have you seen the new Sonata and Azera by Hyundai? They're fantastic, and cheap, but still have tons of features. Plus they have an awesome warranty. The point is, I just can't stand by American car companies when a. they're run by idiots that dug themselves a grave by paying union workers $30 an hour for putting doors on cars and b. they're just now realizing that they they're getitng their asses kicked because frankly, their cars look like ****. Have you ever been inside of a Cavalier or Sunfire? They're absolutely terrible, even for a budget car, especially compared to the imports and that's what puts towards the side of the Imports. But the problem goes all the way up the line to the more expensive domestics, with the only exception being Cadillac, which is one division of GM that's actually making money. Toyota actually makes thousands on each car they make, and I'm going to smile the day they buy out GM, which may or may not be in the soon future.

I'm not going to deny the fact that America does one thing right, and that's making big ****in trucks. But even then, Toyota's Tacoma and before that, the mini trucks are basically indistructable. Just look at the Top Gear episode where they take an old diesel Toyota Hilux (basically a tacoma everywhere else in the world), sink it in Saltwater, burn it, smash it up, bury it in rubble, and it still keeps going, fixed only with simple hand tools and some starting fluid. That's what keeps the Japanese on top. Engineering, Quality, and smart business.
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Unread 10-17-2006, 04:18 PM   #71
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RyleyF,

I think I see part of the problem. You are only relating to things mid 70's or so on up and I AM talking earlier than that, when they first appeared on the scene, right after WW II and the Korean War. Just after the VW's came over, there were some stuff like the Honda 600, some 3cyl, 2 stroke Suzuki things and the like. Stuff a bit before your time and you don't see any of them left to even be restored.

The Japanese in the '50's and 60's made their money with cheap throw away stuff, that's how they got to be wealthy enough to build the stuff that you respect from the mid '70's on up. THAT is exactly what I'm talking about and the Japanese government subsidized them on what they could export to the US along with a devalued yen that made it cheap for us to buy them, just the same that the Chinese are doing now with their monetary system.

Korea didn't even make cars yet.

The name is grampsMOPAR. I don't do GM (or shivie), I don't do phord, I do DC and yes the K car was junk too (feel free to quote me on that). Iaccoca followed the Japanese lead, build disposable junk to resurrect a car company; and it was quite successful, it did save Chrysler. The '80's held absolutely no excitement for me and I didn't see things get overwhelmingly better in the '90's either. Of course there are exceptions to everything such as the ones that you have pointed out but that still is, for the most part, low production cars. I have seem MANY Datsun 510's, Toyota pick ups, etc TOTALLY trashed and falling apart. I've also seen many that were well maintained because their owners loved them that much. Good maintenance goes along way and during the years that you like there wasn't much that the US produced that was worth keeping.

I still would like to think that there a better days ahead for DC. Even tho Jeep is getting bashed for bringing out the Compass by rock climbers, I see it as them having enough for sight to be a bit more innovative and pursue another segment of the market. As long as Jeep offers us things that appeal to us, we'll keep buying them, rather than an import.

We have been talking era's apart, maybe now we can get on the same page. And yes, the auto union workers are overpaid, wish I was one of them!

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Unread 10-17-2006, 07:08 PM   #72
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I see what you're saying now, however I don't think its right to fault the Japanese for making cheap disposable cars after the war. They needed cheap, tiny vehicles to get them around, and it worked for them, but not so much for us.

And as far as DC goes, I think they're the only domestic maker with any bit on sense, even though they're ran by Germans now. That might be part of it. If I were to own a domestic it would probably be something from DC, probably not a Dodge though. They have the unfortunate habit of trying to make EVERY single vehicle they design look like a truck, and I don't think it's working too much. Putting so many diverse vehicles on the Caliber platform, I think, is also a smart idea, way better than GM and Ford's rebadged afterthoughts. But then again, DC has been doing that for decades, starting with the K platform.
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Unread 10-20-2006, 09:20 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky529
I don't see anything wrong with it. It will sell, money is made, end of story. You can still have your Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee...whatever, doesn't mean you have to go out and buy a Compass (or even like it) just because it falls under the Jeep umbrella.

good point bro

i would totally support the compass, because it leaves more Wranglers for the Elitists that wanna jack them up. We will nver have to drive by a non-lift wrangler again and wish they woudl just at leat get a BB....

I would test drive a Compass and wave at the other guy to get the 100 bucks

hey as a DD it is a great vehicle...i would get one for my DD so i could make mine a trailer queen someday

just love jeeps for being jeeps.....they are all good!!!
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