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Unread 08-14-2014, 07:32 PM   #61
Tyler-98-W68
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That was a right hand drive sold in Europe so it was most likely the diesel with the 6 speed manual transmission. Nice video though. Doesn't show enough though

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Unread 08-17-2014, 12:54 PM   #62
937Comanche
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(#14 is a prime example... http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f98/p.../#post15705407 )
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Unread 11-11-2014, 07:07 PM   #63
abhamber
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Although I completely agree that the FDII Jeep Compass / Patriot 4WD systems carry a different set of calibrations as compared to FDI, it seems like the 14' Compass / Patriot (FDI) have a more effective traction control system with the new six speed. This link show my Compass easily 'walking' off an icy patch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqigK-ll-I0
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Unread 11-11-2014, 09:25 PM   #64
Tyler-98-W68
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Which mode of ESP was this done in, the Full on mode, the partial off, or the full off mode (done by holding the esp button for 5 seconds until it dings).

Everything looks good there, I prefer to use the full off mode since it doesn't cut engine power, and uses the brake lock differentials to shift power between wheels.

I see it behaving much like other FDI's

Keep in mind, the FDII MK's function exacting like FDI vehicles when not in the FDII specific mode. If I can find similar terrain I will try to take a similar video.
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Unread 12-09-2014, 02:07 PM   #65
937Comanche
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler-98-W68 View Post
A while back I played around with how the 4x4 system works. Bottom line a FDI and FDII function exactly the same way, except the gear ratios, and when the FDII is in the FDII specific low range, [L] 4x4 Locked.
Gear ratios aside, the aggressive BLDS are what makes the FDII able to go offroad in places a FDI can't, since there is limited articulation wheels come up in the air lots, and that's where the BLD;s come in. The older videos are of my FDII 08 Patriot, I now have a FDII 2012 Compass

Video showings FDI mode (all FDII's work like FDI when in [D] 4x4 locked.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEusI...Q7dU6XwAcvyOSw

What I decided to do was jack up the front of the vehicle so the front tires were just barely off the ground. I would then try the 3 different modes of the Patriots 4x4 system and see how it behaved. Now of course this isn't totally realistic but it gives a better understanding how everything works.

First video is with ESP Full Off Gear selector in [D] with 4x4 Unlocked
I put the Pat in drive and then slowly let of the brake waited a few seconds and slowly eased onto the accelerator

0:18-0:24 seconds is just idling

0:24s+ start applying throttle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aeZCyVjvXI

As you can see the drivers front wheel does not spin (it is off the ground) and the passenger front wheel starts spinning fast and then slows down, which I belive is due to the ecc sending torque to the rear wheels, you'll notice once the front wheel stops spinning the Patriot lurches forward (indicating torque going to the rear wheels although it is hard to see in the video, I could feel it while in the Pat). The front wheel continues to spin at timed intervals (When my foot was off the gas). Indiciating the ECC was locking and unlocking. As I increase pressure on the gas pedal the front wheel slows and it seems the ecc is progressing to what seems almost full lockup before I let off the gas. My guess as to why the passenger wheel isn't spinning is because there isn't enough difference in the wheel speeds to make the BLD kick in. Had i given it more gas the Patriot would have driven forward off the jack.

Second video is with ESP Full Off Gear selector in [D] with 4x4 Locked.
I put the Pat in drive and then slowly let of the brake waited a few seconds and slowly eased onto the accelerator

0:16-0:21 idling
0:21+ start applying throttle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Grm75dK8I7I

Whats interesting right off the bat is the behavior while in the locked mode when idling, it behaves exactly the same way as when the 4x4 was unlocked, lurching forward at intervals, once I touch the gas pedal everything locks up and unlike the AWD mode there is no progression with the ECC it's locked up until i release the gas pedal. In this mode if I would have used more gas I would have been able to drive off the jack.

Third video is with ESP Full Off Gear selector in [L] with 4x4 Locked. This is the FDII mode

I put the Pat in drive and then slowly let of the brake waited a few seconds and slowly eased onto the accelerator

0:16-0:21 idling, foot off the gas
0:21+ start applying throttle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOkFwpZ5MVQ

In the FDII mode everything is the same as the 2nd video, rpms are higher and the Patriot seemed to be more eager to jump off the jacks (increased torque i'm guessing) The sound you hear at the end the the Pat shifting on the blocks (nothing broke)

I think that in all cases when the patriot operates in the AWD mode when there is no throttle is probably to prevent binding in the drivetrain at low speeds, i'm really intrigued how it works because the second there is any throttle input everything locks up (depending on the mode you are in)

In all cases above the patriot was able to transmit enough torque to move the vehicle forward, now whether or not it would be enough to drive over a small bump i'm not sure. Another thing to recognize is that the front wheels had ZERO traction, if your front wheels are on ice there is going to be at least some resistance so this isn't a 100% realistic test.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Izv5tTN9Zt0

As the video states 1st part shows the AWD mode (FDI)

2nd part is the 4x4 lock in D also FDI

3rd Part is the FDII 4x4 locked in Low range.

You can also see the Patriot struggling to spin the wheels at times, not enough torque from the little 4 banger (and my heavy tires don't help either)

Here is a quote from part of the explanation of the 4WD system from jeep:



The AWD mode acts exactly as Jeep States and it appears the ECC is able to vary the amount of tourque going to the rear wheels. When the patriot is idling it appears to be in the "closed loop mode". Once you start giving it some gas then the open loop system also comes in and starts working. It also in my opinion shows that the isn't a whole lot of difference between the 4x4 locked (in D) and unlocked (in D) as the ECC nearly locks up in the AWD mode if you give it enough throttle.

I hope to make more videos in different situations in the near future, I was by myself today so I had to really be careful what I was doing.

If anyone has requests as to what sort of things i should try I would be more than happy to test them out.

Last video has a stupid watermark because my neighbor came over and asked what the hell i was doing so I cut that out


Feel free to look over my other videos I've offroaded my compass extensively and tested out the 4x4 system in almost everyway imaginable.
Again how someone cannot see that merely preventing that CVT from changing the gear ratios does work wonders? As does leaving any other tranny in first gear. There is nothing beyond conjecture, at least partially proven wrong as the FD1 DOES include them despite it not being in the sales brochures, about the "BLDS" being different, either. The literature that has been presented does not say what the presenters believe it does. See above about the BLDS in the FD1 despite it not being in the only written material they can produce. Here is a little test: try starting out in 3rd up a muddy hill with a manual. Can't do it? Now try it in 1st. Viola! Yep it must be that superior Magical Brake Lock Differential increase. Preventing the CVT from adjusting is not a low range, either. It is, once again, just preventing it from changing the ratios into a less favorable range. That it needs intervention to perform the very very basic ability to hold a lower ratio added is another example of the CVT's weakness, not a strength.
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Unread 12-10-2014, 12:27 PM   #66
rcguymike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 937Comanche View Post
Again how someone cannot see that merely preventing that CVT from changing the gear ratios does work wonders? As does leaving any other tranny in first gear. There is nothing beyond conjecture, at least partially proven wrong as the FD1 DOES include them despite it not being in the sales brochures, about the "BLDS" being different, either. The literature that has been presented does not say what the presenters believe it does. See above about the BLDS in the FD1 despite it not being in the only written material they can produce. Here is a little test: try starting out in 3rd up a muddy hill with a manual. Can't do it? Now try it in 1st. Viola! Yep it must be that superior Magical Brake Lock Differential increase. Preventing the CVT from adjusting is not a low range, either. It is, once again, just preventing it from changing the ratios into a less favorable range. That it needs intervention to perform the very very basic ability to hold a lower ratio added is another example of the CVT's weakness, not a strength.
To steal some of Tyler's videos:
Can't get any more convinced the BLD is initially less sensitive on FD1 than FD2. Both will lock down until all tires are stopped(I've experienced this) it's just a matter of how much tire do you want to lose and will you actually make it when it's clamped down hard.
FD1
FD1 BLD's

FD2
FD2 BLD's

Last edited by rcguymike; 12-10-2014 at 12:43 PM..
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Unread 12-11-2014, 11:30 AM   #67
SPF3000
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Maybe... but it just looks like more gas/acceleration was given more rapidly in the first video, and the second video involved much less acceleration. I.e., It just appears the difference is a product of "gunning" the gas in one vehicle, but not the other.
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Unread 12-11-2014, 11:33 AM   #68
Tyler-98-W68
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The FDII Video Compass..........was full throttle the entire time, Aggressive BLD's cause it to seem like there isn't as much gas/acceleration
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Unread 12-14-2014, 11:24 AM   #69
SPF3000
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Wow. Seems like a definite difference. Makes me like having a standard for little 4x4 all that much more...feel like I have a bit more control...or I'm just dating myself Thanks for the info!
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