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Unread 08-08-2014, 11:20 AM   #31
jch24vball
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Can we just agree to take whatever we are driving to wherever we want to drive them and find out for ourselves what they are capable of and leave it at that?

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Unread 08-08-2014, 11:21 AM   #32
Tyler-98-W68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jch24vball View Post
Can we just agree to take whatever we are driving to wherever we want to drive them and find out for ourselves what they are capable of and leave it at that?
I would love to, I just came in with I guess my opinions, and a lot of real world experience on how this system works, and then try to get discredited for my work because i'm "biased". You won't find anyone else with 6 years of experience with MK's and modifying them, so I might know a thing or 2 about how they work.
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Unread 08-08-2014, 11:36 AM   #33
jch24vball
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You live in America and your opinion is your own. Lol.
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Unread 08-08-2014, 11:37 AM   #34
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"The Freedom Drive II-equipped Patriot uses a continuously variable transmission with a low range instead of a traditional two-speed transfer case, but has Jeep's "Trail Rated" badging, signifying that it "has been designed to perform in five categories of off-road conditions: traction, ground clearance, maneuverability, articulation, and water fording." The Freedom Drive II Patriot is among the most off-road-capable vehicles in its class, in part due to specialized anti-lock braking technology that Jeep describes as 'Brake Lock Differential'. This allows the vehicle to maintain forward motion if one or two wheels lose traction by selectively and aggressively applying brakes to the spinning wheels. This is an improvement over other conventional on-road orientated AWD system; a vehicle intended for on-road use with open differentials only would be stranded if there was a loss of traction in one front and one rear wheel at the same time. The BLD is also standard in The Freedom Drive I, although it is less aggressive than the BLD found in the Freedom Drive II Patriots."
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Unread 08-08-2014, 11:38 AM   #35
Tyler-98-W68
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^ Do I know you from somewhere

Thanks
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Unread 08-08-2014, 11:57 AM   #36
937Comanche
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Ignore button...what an invention!
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Unread 08-08-2014, 12:01 PM   #37
Tyler-98-W68
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It's a fabulous invention especially after someone came up with the info to discredit you
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Unread 08-08-2014, 12:29 PM   #38
937Comanche
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aroundincircles View Post
"The Freedom Drive II-equipped Patriot uses a continuously variable transmission with a low range instead of a traditional two-speed transfer case, but has Jeep's "Trail Rated" badging, signifying that it "has been designed to perform in five categories of off-road conditions: traction, ground clearance, maneuverability, articulation, and water fording." The Freedom Drive II Patriot is among the most off-road-capable vehicles in its class, in part due to specialized anti-lock braking technology that Jeep describes as 'Brake Lock Differential'. This allows the vehicle to maintain forward motion if one or two wheels lose traction by selectively and aggressively applying brakes to the spinning wheels. This is an improvement over other conventional on-road orientated AWD system; a vehicle intended for on-road use with open differentials only would be stranded if there was a loss of traction in one front and one rear wheel at the same time. The BLD is also standard in The Freedom Drive I, although it is less aggressive than the BLD found in the Freedom Drive II Patriots."
Citation please, aroundincircles? It does not seem to be very accurate or reliable as we have already shown the "low range" to be advertising hokum and puffery. The FD2 has no more of a low range than the FD1! It is merely being held at the lowest available gear combination just as an autostick or manual in "1st" gear. So if part of the claim is made-up BS.....?


Why don't you tout your MK on this forum? Both jeeps are equal here as it is not model specific forum like some others.
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Unread 08-08-2014, 12:36 PM   #39
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Oh no he didn't! aroundincircles just qouted a WIKI as an actual source of info! No wonder it included already discredited stuff....how much do you wanna bet someone in this thread had edited some of that wiki at some point? Shameful. That, ladies and gentleman, demonstrates the veracity of the FD2 fan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeep_Patriot


Oh wait! Now I have proof:
"The FD2 system has no low range. It merely holds the lowest gears of the transmission just like leaving a manual transmission or a manually controlled automatic transmission in first gear. There is also no evidence from Jeep that there is any difference in the BLD system from FD1 & FD2."


I will wait for some official proof. It will be a long wait. Obviously it would have been presented if it existed. No wonder aroundincircles quoted that trash without citing it. Sad.
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Unread 08-08-2014, 12:47 PM   #40
Tyler-98-W68
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So If something isn't written it isn't true?

It does not seem to be very accurate or reliable as we have already shown the "low range" to be advertising hokum and puffery.

Yes there is no transfer case to casue a torque multiplication like real offroad vehicles, BUT having a different final drive ratio of 8:135:1 on a FDII makes it achieve a numerically higher crawl ratio as compared to a FDI

Because of the different final drive ratio a FDII at ANY speed with have a higher RPM than a FDI MK that would apply in "1st gear on a cvt"

Once again from this article (A Chrysler engineer mind you talking about the FDII system)
http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/cvts-go-off-road

When the low-range mode is selected via a switch, a controller determines whether the vehicle is traveling at an acceptable rate of speed (the system can only be activated at speeds below 25 mph) and then engages a coupling mechanism, via specially developed software programming, to engage the secondary drive wheel while the CVT moves into a higher final drive ratio of up to 19:1, which is more than enough to traverse just about any dusty trail or rough terrain. Loddane dismisses any concerns over potential durability issues of operating a CVT at such output levels, adding that most of the attention during development was focused on perfecting the calibration and feel of the system. “We had to do a lot of work to make sure the low-range mode would operate like a traditional system from a customer standpoint, so that it would sound and feel familiar,” he says. The CVT2L system will be offered on the Patriot as part of the Freedom Drive II package, which itself is geared for durable off-road use, with 1-in. higher ground clearance, additional body sealing and high-mounted drivetrain vents designed to support 19-in. water fording capability.—KMK

So, now you tell me where it states that a FDI CVT has those features listed above by a Chrysler Powertrain Engineer.
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Unread 08-08-2014, 12:52 PM   #41
Tyler-98-W68
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Isn't it funny that WIKI entry has been recently edited to say EXACTLY what you have been preaching on here?

For full disclosure I just put information up on there, citing a reference.

You haven't provided any concrete evidence other than "people complain about the CVT on forums" and "FDII is marketing mumbo jumbo" about the 6 speed auto in your patriot. Once again, show us your patriot and why its the same as a FDII
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Unread 08-08-2014, 01:12 PM   #42
aroundincircles
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He seriously went in and edited the wiki so it would say what he wanted it to say?

HAHAHAHAHA...

Man this guy has some serious buyers remorse from what it sounds like? didn't he get banned from the other jeep patriot forum for being an idiot?

Everybody agrees that he is wrong, and yet he goes around making a complete fool of himself.
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Unread 08-08-2014, 01:50 PM   #43
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http://www.chryslercommercialvehicle.../module-D.html

info from Chrysler about the Trail rated capability and performance.


and how about something you cannot change, the service manual:

"Split-friction surfaces (where one wheel has grip and the other side of the vehicle is on a low-friction surface) or where a wheel is suspended off the ground and spins in the air are common off-road situations. An open differential by nature directs torque to the wheel that has the least amount of grip, and in these cases, the wheel spinning on the low-friction surface or the wheel spinning in the air, which is undesirable. While some vehicles use locking differentials to help overcome this situation and provide a solid connection between two wheels on a given axle, Brake Lock Differentials (BLDs) are used on this vehicle as an effective solution.

Vehicles equipped with the Off-Road Group (sales code AWL) include a separate set of BLD calibrations that are designed for Off-Road mode use while crawling over obstacles, during heavy articulation activity, split-friction surfaces and other conditions. These BLDs provide an alternative solution to locking differentials found on other vehicles by replacing the locking differential with the brake control hardware that is already in place on the vehicle. The same hardware used for Electronic Stability Control is used for Brake Lock Differentials.

Under normal conditions with the vehicle in Off-Road mode, for example, assume that the Electronically Controlled Coupling directs 148 ft. lbs. (200 Nm) of torque to the rear differential and each wheel receives an equal share, 74 ft. lbs. (100 Nm) of torque.

When wheel speeds are unequal across a given axle, the BLDs respond. In this example, the vehicle is crawling over rocky terrain and the vehicle experiences heavy axle articulation that suspends the right rear wheel in the air and the wheel spins. The open differential ports all 148 ft. lbs. (200 Nm) of torque to the wheel in the air.

The Antilock Brake Module (ABM) senses the right wheel is spinning faster than its mate on the opposite side of the rear axle and clamps the brake caliper on the spinning wheel to stop it from spinning and form a solid connection across the axle. If 74 ft. lbs. (100 Nm) of brake force is applied to stop the spinning wheel, an equal amount of torque is ported to the wheel with grip. This allows the vehicle to continue moving forward. The amount of torque the BLDs can send to the wheel with traction is dependent on the amount of torque the brake caliper can hold. The brakes are capable of holding the amount of torque used in this example. "
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Unread 08-08-2014, 02:09 PM   #44
937Comanche
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aroundincircles View Post
http://www.chryslercommercialvehicle.../module-D.html

info from Chrysler about the Trail rated capability and performance.


and how about something you cannot change, the service manual:

"Split-friction surfaces (where one wheel has grip and the other side of the vehicle is on a low-friction surface) or where a wheel is suspended off the ground and spins in the air are common off-road situations. An open differential by nature directs torque to the wheel that has the least amount of grip, and in these cases, the wheel spinning on the low-friction surface or the wheel spinning in the air, which is undesirable. While some vehicles use locking differentials to help overcome this situation and provide a solid connection between two wheels on a given axle, Brake Lock Differentials (BLDs) are used on this vehicle as an effective solution.

Vehicles equipped with the Off-Road Group (sales code AWL) include a separate set of BLD calibrations that are designed for Off-Road mode use while crawling over obstacles, during heavy articulation activity, split-friction surfaces and other conditions. These BLDs provide an alternative solution to locking differentials found on other vehicles by replacing the locking differential with the brake control hardware that is already in place on the vehicle. The same hardware used for Electronic Stability Control is used for Brake Lock Differentials.

Under normal conditions with the vehicle in Off-Road mode, for example, assume that the Electronically Controlled Coupling directs 148 ft. lbs. (200 Nm) of torque to the rear differential and each wheel receives an equal share, 74 ft. lbs. (100 Nm) of torque.

When wheel speeds are unequal across a given axle, the BLDs respond. In this example, the vehicle is crawling over rocky terrain and the vehicle experiences heavy axle articulation that suspends the right rear wheel in the air and the wheel spins. The open differential ports all 148 ft. lbs. (200 Nm) of torque to the wheel in the air.

The Antilock Brake Module (ABM) senses the right wheel is spinning faster than its mate on the opposite side of the rear axle and clamps the brake caliper on the spinning wheel to stop it from spinning and form a solid connection across the axle. If 74 ft. lbs. (100 Nm) of brake force is applied to stop the spinning wheel, an equal amount of torque is ported to the wheel with grip. This allows the vehicle to continue moving forward. The amount of torque the BLDs can send to the wheel with traction is dependent on the amount of torque the brake caliper can hold. The brakes are capable of holding the amount of torque used in this example. "
This "definition" says nothing about the differences in the two systems. In fact it is not even referring to the MK. This code, AWL, is used across the line-up. Notice there is no mention of Freedom Drive 1 or 2? This could be info for a KL or WK2 or WK1 or...you get the point. Nothing in that excludes it from applying to both systems. Infact AWL is also used on JK's that have NO BLD function. Thanks for posting but your reaching reveals your character and honesty. Try again.

Wiki is nothing but edits. It is unreliable. That is why you quoted it like it was something but hid the source. I stand by my contentions regarding the veracity of these two fanbois. You still cannot come up with any info regarding the BLD differences as that post in no way shape or form cuts it. Just as you tried to hide a wiki quote you know to be made up to try to fool those who just glance at this. Not cool.

Exiting Wiki was to make my point that it is not a reliable reference source.
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Unread 08-08-2014, 02:18 PM   #45
937Comanche
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Aroundincircles "qoute" was about code AWL. Ladies and gentlemen I give you Code AWL....for a 2014 Grand Chero:
[I]Off-Road Adventure I - $995
Front and rear outline white letters : and 245/70-17 and all-terrain tires; Terrain type selection; Selec-Terrain responsive suspensionfeatures driver selectable and electronic-control; Quadra-Trac II drive with manual & automatic selection and descent control system; Space-saver spare tire with steel rim; Underbody protection for fuel tank, for transfer case and for engine; Trail Rated badge; Trailer towing preparation includes: trailer hitch[I]

Again: such reaching is tantamount to admission that your stuff is not defefensible
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