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Unread 08-28-2013, 05:56 AM   #16
SubAtomicGenius
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Originally Posted by gsaxe View Post
Since I am still lockerless but deciding soon I will try to revive this. SubAtomic I see your pdf that says d44 24" max tire size and am not being argumentative just for fun. Is that old? Current Yukon site says d44 35" limit. Of course more worrisome is its says void if used off road. Still better than ARB who limits to stock in writing anyway. So aside from lawyers...Prot, how do you like your ZIP
Hey, no prob. In my experience, any Yukon documentation will undoubtedly refer to Dana Spicer specs which state that a 34" max tire size for a Dana Spicer D44/D44JK axle. This is clearly stated in their install guides and in their "differentials" book. Fact is that any axle assembly, no matter what make, no matter what size - is designed to service a certain size tire, a certain vehicle weight, and a certain intended use.

That being said, each of these variables can have a different effect on the end product. Because the manufacturers have no control over your *intended use* and (somewhat) your gross-vehicle weight, they usually stick to the rated max tire size for warranty purposes. True, you can roll 35's or even (gulp) 37's on stock axles with no extra added beef, stick to the street (ie. intended use) and have no issues. Or you can take the same rig and hit the rocks and bend up your tubes, inner "C's" - or in this case - grenade your ring and pinion/locker. This is why sleeves, trusses, and gussets are popular/recommended - however, once you get over a certain tire size (and low gear range) - the ring and pinion becomes the weak point and the only practical solution is to go with a larger ring and pinion - which means a bigger axle assembly (ie. D60).

Again, I'm sure that companies like Yukon and ARB need to draw a line in the sand somewhere when it comes to a practical warranty policy on their products - or else they'd be taking a hit when everyone put 38" tires on their D30/D44JK axle assemblies...

To Prot - I am very interested to see how you make out with these Yukon Zip lockers. I was seriously considering these when I purchased my ARB for my D44 rear axle assembly.

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Unread 08-28-2013, 09:18 AM   #17
duneslider
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I am getting zips front and rear. I bought them from and they will be installed by alljeep.com. The owner is a local to me and I talked to him a lot about arb and zip. He only carries zip now. He said he has only had one failure (wouldn't engage once installed) with a zip locker and it was warrantied 100% by Yukon. When I say 100% I mean they shipped a brand new locker out, paid for the install of the new locker and didn't even request the other locker be sent back.

That was when he decided to stop carrying ARB too. He said there are very few applications that he can't use the zip. When I was at his place he did have a TJ with a ford 8.8 that he was putting an ARB in. He also said the zips are better to install (easier and less likely to leak because the zip fittings are better).

He had a zip in his JK with 37's. And he runs zips in his TJ buggy with 40" stickies. He had two sets of tera60's in the shop that looked like they were getting zips (boxes sitting next to them).

I searched online and couldn't find any negative posts by actual zip owners. There is a youtube video that shows a zip locker failing but it was made by ARB (**red flag**) and the locker in question doesn't appear to be an actual production zip locker, it looks like a prototype or something.

All manufacturers have to put limitations in but from what I have seen both zip and arb are good about warranties on things but generally the problems I have found were manufacturing defects and not failures from use. Yukon's warranty is longer though.
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Unread 08-28-2013, 10:51 AM   #18
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Everyone has seen the ARB video about the zip lockers. If you're like me, you're still waiting for any practical, real-world, first-hand experience with the Zip locker. Of course, Yukon is a solid brand and I like their products, however, I shy away from anything that isn't proven. ARB lockers are proven. And the only ARB fails I've heard of are from extreme hard use (ie. "I've got a sponsor) and, perhaps, from bad installs. Plus, I really can't see how a zip locker is any easier to install than an ARB - I've installed my ARB myself and it is not much more different than a typical diff install. The only trick is that they specify in their instructions to use a case spreader to get the carrier preload correct - which is/may be a picking point with many backyard differential installers. The fittings comment is not really valid, either - I'm an instrumentation technician by trade, I deal with fittings on a regular basis and ARB's fittings/connections are good quality and fit for purpose.

Either way, I'll digress. For now I'm really looking forward to Prot's and Duneslider's assessments after the field test.
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Unread 08-28-2013, 12:37 PM   #19
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I can't comment on the difference in the install, as I haven't installed either. I was just going off of what this guy said, and he has installed 30-40 and sold even more so I figured he has a good idea. I also don't know exactly what the fittings are like for the arb locker. The zip uses what I call a press-lock fitting. You just cut the tubing and slide it in and it locks in place. No ferrules or compression nuts. I use press-lock fittings on a very regular basis at work and have had very few problems with them and like how easy they are to work with. Some tend to feel the ferrule/compression type fittings are better, I guess I like easy if it works. I also like the solenoid the zip comes with, again, can't comment on the one with the arb since I haven't seen those. I do know that I can get solenoids like the zip one at my local Air/hydraulic supply house.

From what I could see when I was looking, the ARB wasn't several hundred dollars better (time will tell though). Since I have always rooted for the under dog I figured I would give the zip a try and see what happens. Plus, this guy gave me a great price on the lockers and install. I was planning to do all the work myself this winter but ended up almost being the same as having him do it for me. The only downside is I don't have a reason to buy new tools now.

By the way, from what I hear talking to several diff installers, a diff spreader is very nice to have.
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Unread 08-28-2013, 12:46 PM   #20
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I have used a spreader once and there is not need for one. Just put a wrench on a ring gear bolt and rotate pinion till wrench hits housing. Then keep turning the pinion in that same direction and it will walk ring gear right out of housing.
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Unread 08-28-2013, 01:27 PM   #21
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Sorry, but just because you can manage without a diff spreader doesn't mean that you don't need one. Anybody can pry a diff out of a housing using any number of methods. It is the "pounding" back in with shims in place to get the preload that isn't right. You end up damaging shims, side-load the bearings and you probably won't get the proper preload anyhow. A spreader makes this way too easy - spread, put diff with bearing races and preload shims in place, put bearing caps on, release spreader, and tighten bearing caps. Just because you can beat on something doesn't mean that you don't need the proper tools for the job.
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Unread 08-28-2013, 01:46 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SubAtomicGenius
Sorry, but just because you can manage without a diff spreader doesn't mean that you don't need one. Anybody can pry a diff out of a housing using any number of methods. It is the "pounding" back in with shims in place to get the preload that isn't right. You end up damaging shims, side-load the bearings and you probably won't get the proper preload anyhow. A spreader makes this way too easy - spread, put diff with bearing races and preload shims in place, put bearing caps on, release spreader, and tighten bearing caps. Just because you can beat on something doesn't mean that you don't need the proper tools for the job.
There is no pounding or beating whatsoever. I have been a professional tech for 15 years and the beat it pound it method is not how I do business. If you have the proper shim driver and know what you are doing with the proper shims you will not damage one. With this method I always get the pattern I want and the right preload. A housing spreader is great but it is not needed to do the job right. The way I do it the ring gear comes out with ease with no shock to any parts.
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Unread 08-28-2013, 06:52 PM   #23
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Talked to Yukon yesterday about warranties. Yukon says the $50 YES lifetime is no questions PERIOD and that the tire size chart is in any case, like subatomic said a reccomendation not a warranty limitation. About the off road use limitation they said that refers to abuse like reapatadly dragging your dif back and then forward over a boulder and smashing the case, after I pointed out where their site said this and read it to them. Breakage while just accelerating, even off road is manufacturer defect. I am deciding between the Zip for $900 with compressor and YES warranty plus approx $500 install OR $650 detroit and $200 install I am still waffling........thanks everyone for chiming back in on a much beaten horse!
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Unread 08-28-2013, 07:59 PM   #24
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That install seems crazy high. Might want to check around.

I didn't think they still did that $50 dollar "extended" warranty.
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Unread 08-29-2013, 05:38 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mello View Post
There is no pounding or beating whatsoever. I have been a professional tech for 15 years and the beat it pound it method is not how I do business. If you have the proper shim driver and know what you are doing with the proper shims you will not damage one. With this method I always get the pattern I want and the right preload. A housing spreader is great but it is not needed to do the job right. The way I do it the ring gear comes out with ease with no shock to any parts.
Lol, I'm not even going to start here.
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Unread 08-29-2013, 05:41 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by duneslider View Post
That install seems crazy high. Might want to check around.

I didn't think they still did that $50 dollar "extended" warranty.
The install doesn't seem too bad considering they have to add the air compressor system as well. Interested to know how it all works out. Remember the point of this thread was to go with the Zip so don't waffle out on us now!
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Unread 08-29-2013, 08:34 AM   #27
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My front is done and sitting in the garage on the shelf, just gotta find time to swap the axles out. Should have the rear back in a week or so.

I need to get a compressor figured out though. I was wanting to go with the viair ada system but I am running out of coin fast and may just have to get the cheap arb for now.
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Unread 08-29-2013, 08:36 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by SubAtomicGenius View Post
The install doesn't seem too bad considering they have to add the air compressor system as well. Interested to know how it all works out. Remember the point of this thread was to go with the Zip so don't waffle out on us now!
I guess that makes sense if he is having them do the compressor. I was just envisioning the locker install and he would do the compressor himself. That would account for the difference.
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Unread 08-31-2013, 07:50 PM   #29
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I went to Holly Beach today and drove up and down the beach in the sand. This is the place that made me want to get a locker in the first place. Last time I was there, I got a little nervous because I thought I was going to get stuck. At the time, I put it in 4Lo and was able to get out. Still, that nervous feeling stuck with me so I got the lockers.

Today, the way the locker worked seemed surreal. I got into some loose sand and could see the chevy Z71 starting to get bogged down and I could feel myself sinking and losing traction. I was in 2H intentionally so I could find a spot to test the locker. I put the transmission in neutral hit the switch on my compressor and on my locker then put it back in drive. I was moving again without hesitation. The locker engaged so smoothly with no noise or hesitation I wasn't sure if even engaged at first. The only indication of it working was suddenly I was moving along with good traction. I came to a big dip in the sand so I put in 4Lo before entering it and I just walked in the hole and walked out like it was nothing, no kicking up sand or spinning tires or anything. All while this was happening, the Z71 had to break off from following me and get to harder ground because he was getting buried and had very little traction.

My main take away from this is the locker tamed the computer. Previously I had problems with the esp, traction control, and all the rest of the computer garbage taking over, applying brakes and gas at the same time which causes the jeep to go nowhere and just shake in place. With the locker, that does not happen because I can just press a button to get more traction, so the computer never senses that anything is wrong.

The smooth seamless engagement was nice. Almost too nice because other than better traction, I had no way to know if it actually engaged or not.

The Goodyear Duratracs performed well in the sand.

I do have a couple of things worth noting on today's trip though. I drove a couple of miles at about 5 mph in the sand. It was in the upper 90's today plus the humidity was really high. Towards the end, I started smelling hot oil. The more I sniffed, the more it seemed like the smell of automatic transmission fluid. I did not get any warning on the dash or anything and I had no indication of anything wrong, other than the smell. Needless to say, a transmission cooler is on my want list. I had been looking at many different types recently and have not decided on what to go with. Some have fans, some do not. Some look like a an a/c condensor while others seem like a round tube with fins on all sides.

The other thing that happened was the blower motor on my a/c stopped working. It was working and I stopped at a store to pick up a bottle of water. When I went to leave, no blower motor. I shut the jeep off and restarted it a few times but nothing helped. I messed with it on the way home and for little while it started blowing again, but just barely. I left it off for the rest of way home. I checked fuses and nothing is blown. I did a search and there are many threads about it. Since Monday is labor day, everything is closed. On Monday I am going to the dealer. I think it is the blower motor resister because for a while now it seems like only the high setting works and any other setting barely puts out.

i had planned on installing my dual battery system and high output alternator this weekend, but I am going to hold off on that until the blower motor is fixed so that I don't introduce another unknown.

The locker in the rear worked so good that I want one for the front now. I am just weighing my options regarding the axle.
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Unread 09-11-2013, 04:44 PM   #30
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For any who might be interested I just ordered a Grizzly for 520 delivered, with a Labor Day sale from Auto Anything. Had a huge cluster**** over the lifetime warranty which AA was not prepared to sell yet, but still bought it straight from Randy's for another 50 bucks. They claim it is a no questions asked replacement. The collaterol damage coverage is just one year on the griz, 2 on the zip.

It will be going in my rear d44 (4 door auto 4.1 gears) and I am leaving the front open but trussed, for now.

also FYI I did check around. I got qoutes from desert rat, 4 wheel parts, and several local 4x specialists and yes it included the compressor and switches. "and now you know the rest of the story" Paul Harvey
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