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Unread 04-24-2013, 12:06 PM   #1
HighandLow
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Weird Shudder when braking while turning?

Heading back from about a 100 mile trip I exited the freeway on a ramp that curves downhill to the left. As I applied the brakes to slow down and take the curve I got an awful shudder from the pedal and heard some grinding noises from the front. Got it home and looked at everything, nothing. No scrape marks on the wheels, brake calipers, brake lines. Everything from steering to suspension looks and feels OK.

FYI, Front springs and stabilizer relocation bracket added about 3 weeks ago, alignment done about 2 weeks ago. 35000 on the jeep. Other specs are in my sig.

Since adding the front springs the jeep does feel flighty on the highway. Steering is tight though, and it drives in a straight line with one finger on the wheel.
As I said it, happened going downhill and curving left at about 15 mph, so the full weight of the jeep was on the front left rotor as I braked.

Any guesses as to what caused the shudder?

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Unread 04-24-2013, 12:30 PM   #2
socal_rubi
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Sounds like the ESC activated. It's basically your ABS coming on and being applied to the proper wheels to help keep you in control of your vehicle. That will produce the symptoms you described. I've had it happen a few times.
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Unread 04-24-2013, 12:31 PM   #3
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Traction Control kicking in.. Did you re program for bigger tires..?
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Unread 04-24-2013, 12:53 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socal_rubi View Post
Sounds like the ESC activated. It's basically your ABS coming on and being applied to the proper wheels to help keep you in control of your vehicle. That will produce the symptoms you described. I've had it happen a few times.
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Traction Control kicking in.. Did you re program for bigger tires..?
I have not reprogrammed. Also, I discovered in looking at everything, that the alignment shop aired me up to 40#.
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Unread 04-24-2013, 01:05 PM   #5
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Flighty, or Darty. Can be from not enough toe in. Factory i think is 1/8[ 1/16 per side]. Though on a Jk its soild tie rod means no way to adust one side anyway. So if its less tyan the 1/8 it will get darty, thoughthis means less rolling resistance. You can add a bit more toe with larger tires. This will keep it tracking better, less wonder/darty. I like a bit darty less wear, but in the wind it is a hand full. On roads that have groves it tend to follow them as well.

As long as everythng else is good.
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Unread 04-24-2013, 01:10 PM   #6
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Yep. Stability Control kicked in.

Wanna hear a wild one about stability control? I was cruising 80 down the freeway in the caddy and heard a thud and felt a quick shudder that went away. Stability Enagaged showed on the dash - along with check tire pressure. STILL AT 80 - I rolled through the menu and saw RR Tire 0 PSI. It wasn't shaking, shuddering or vibrating so I lowered the mirror to see the RR and it looked okay - not flat so I figured I hit a pot hole and had malfunction of the sender and continued another 12 miles. As I slowed below 40 coming into Waco the back end felt "light" so I hung a right onto a side street. As I came to a stop the tire started shaking as a flat. There was a hole I could put my fist through on the inner sidewall.

The stabilitrac (which uses hydraulics to alter the "center point" of the struts systems) adapted to the blowout by adding weight to the LR and taking it off the RR - I was three wheelin! The only downside I can see is that if I had continued on (and I can picture many an idiot doing just that - lol)- the tread would have peeled and beat the crap outta my car (as it was the sidewalls were smoking even after I pulled the tire off). But for safety? I am SOLD on ESC (even Chryslers lame version - comparatively).
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Unread 04-24-2013, 01:49 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 222Doc View Post
Flighty, or Darty. Can be from not enough toe in. Factory i think is 1/8[ 1/16 per side]. Though on a Jk its soild tie rod means no way to adust one side anyway. So if its less tyan the 1/8 it will get darty, thoughthis means less rolling resistance. You can add a bit more toe with larger tires. This will keep it tracking better, less wonder/darty. I like a bit darty less wear, but in the wind it is a hand full. On roads that have groves it tend to follow them as well.

As long as everythng else is good.
Hmm.. Well now you have me curious. Toe is adjustable right? Sorry, All of the alignment specs are Greek to me. The stabilizer (?) bar in the very front of the steering set up, where the steering stabilizer connects is how thats adjusted right? The bar itself has some play. I can grab it and sorta rotate it up and down as the bushings have play. Normal?
align.jpg  
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Unread 04-24-2013, 02:47 PM   #8
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The steering stabilizer connects to your tie rod. that should have some play (as you describe "twisting" but should not "flop" - the play should be firm. to check the ends, jack one wheel up and try to steer it left and right at the tire by hand - it should not move a whole lot (without also moving the grounded tire), you should not feel any clicking AND the tie rod should not be repeating that twisting motion. Then check ball joints (while still jacked up) by trying to rock the tire top to bottom - again no play and no clicky feel. Every good alignment shop I have worked with would not even proceed to align if it did not pass these two tests.

Looking at the alignment sheet your toe is in the good range for up to 35s. The sheet does not express it as inches in or out - but rather degrees of steer.
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Unread 04-24-2013, 03:15 PM   #9
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Not having a reprogram for bigger tires will cause the TC to kick in sooner as the rotational differences between left and right side tires are increased.. Reprogramming for proper tire size will bring it back in line.
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Unread 04-24-2013, 03:53 PM   #10
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Thank you very much for the replies. A programmer is on the short list.
Just got finished watching the first of Planmans tutorials. I'll probably need to watch them more than once to educated myself fully.
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Unread 04-25-2013, 07:06 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighandLow View Post
Thank you very much for the replies. A programmer is on the short list.
Just got finished watching the first of Planmans tutorials. I'll probably need to watch them more than once to educated myself fully.
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i had the same issue and it was not the stability control. it was indeed the first sign of my death wobble. it stopped all that when i replaced trac bar and drag link end at the pitman arm. it only happened when going down a certain hill turning to the left. i was like my rotors went from being good to shot but then good again. trac bar holes were wallowed out to 5/8 bad check it out sounds like the same issue.
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Unread 04-25-2013, 03:49 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkmatt11 View Post
i had the same issue and it was not the stability control. it was indeed the first sign of my death wobble. it stopped all that when i replaced trac bar and drag link end at the pitman arm. it only happened when going down a certain hill turning to the left. i was like my rotors went from being good to shot but then good again. trac bar holes were wallowed out to 5/8 bad check it out sounds like the same issue.
I'll check that out, Thank you!
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