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Unread 06-12-2012, 01:48 PM   #1
Bakedog
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Traction Control

Hey guys, I was driving the other day and noticed somthing odd. When I would slow down going into a turn, usually on an exit ramp that turned really sharp, the traction control light would come on and it felt like the anti lock brakes would kick in. It kinda shuttered a little and then it went away. I recently installed 275/65/18 Duratracs. I have no other mods yet.

Anyone experenced something similar or should I take it to the dealer and get it checked out? It has only done this twice.

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Unread 06-12-2012, 01:51 PM   #2
Jkm57
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With me it comes and goes. Especially when exiting ramps or going over bridges. People on here know better than me to what causes it. Mine has gone away for while now after I had it aligned and got aev drop brackets for the front lca.
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Unread 06-13-2012, 10:26 AM   #3
VEGASROBBI
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Premature ESP engagement is common with larger than stock tires. Most of the complaints I have had is with 35's+ exiting freeway offramps.

The ABS module monitors all 4 wheel speeds. ESP is sensitive and changing tire size can effect things.

I believe your tires are about 33"? Thats not too far off. Did you have the speedo corrected after changing the tires? Most dealers can only program up to a factory tire size so you will need an aftermarket pregrammer.

Also make sure you steering wheel is dead straight going down the road, it's best to use a scan tool and monitor steering angle senor data but if you don't have one get it as close as you can.

This is a place to start.
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Unread 06-13-2012, 11:32 AM   #4
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How fast are you heading into the turn and how aggressively are you braking? There are actually several systems at play that are very similar to the electronic systems in other cars and trucks though it is tuned for the unique characteristics of the Wrangler and adaptable to the off-road lifestyle. The ones most people know of are the Electronic Stability Control System and the Traction Control System, but the system I think you may be sensing is the Rollover Mitigation System which is part of both systems really. Like stability control and traction control, it can actuate the throttle and activate brakes at each wheel to compensate if the driver 'overdrives' the capabilities of the vehicle. Since Wranglers have a high center of gravity compared to a car, it is more likely to rollover if it gets going sideways whereas a car will simply spin around. If you begin braking aggressively and then head into a sharp turn, the G-force sensor will think you are heading into a potential rollover situation and begin trying to compensate before the vehicle can cross a point of no return in which it would roll over. The light may begin flashing as a warning and then you'll feel the pulsing of brakes as it tries to coax the vehicle out of the danger zone though not enough to alter the vehicle's trajectory significantly - you still need to be in control of which direction you're going! Changing tire sizes and aftermarket modifications like lift kits can fundamentally change the handling of the vehicle so the electronic systems may begin detecting lateral forces that were not so pronounced when it was stock.
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Unread 06-13-2012, 12:08 PM   #5
Jkm57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jake_blue
How fast are you heading into the turn and how aggressively are you braking? There are actually several systems at play that are very similar to the electronic systems in other cars and trucks though it is tuned for the unique characteristics of the Wrangler and adaptable to the off-road lifestyle. The ones most people know of are the Electronic Stability Control System and the Traction Control System, but the system I think you may be sensing is the Rollover Mitigation System which is part of both systems really. Like stability control and traction control, it can actuate the throttle and activate brakes at each wheel to compensate if the driver 'overdrives' the capabilities of the vehicle. Since Wranglers have a high center of gravity compared to a car, it is more likely to rollover if it gets going sideways whereas a car will simply spin around. If you begin braking aggressively and then head into a sharp turn, the G-force sensor will think you are heading into a potential rollover situation and begin trying to compensate before the vehicle can cross a point of no return in which it would roll over. The light may begin flashing as a warning and then you'll feel the pulsing of brakes as it tries to coax the vehicle out of the danger zone though not enough to alter the vehicle's trajectory significantly - you still need to be in control of which direction you're going! Changing tire sizes and aftermarket modifications like lift kits can fundamentally change the handling of the vehicle so the electronic systems may begin detecting lateral forces that were not so pronounced when it was stock.
This explains why I feel my jeep tries to kill me while I'm on the freeway.
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Unread 06-13-2012, 01:15 PM   #6
1AAdam
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as above these systems are pretty sensitive and probably engage when they are not needed. or they are engaging because u don't know they should be. maybe u are going too fast into the turn.
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Unread 06-13-2012, 01:22 PM   #7
Bakedog
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Wow that really makes a lot on sense. Sounds exactly like what is going on. Thanks for the good info.
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Unread 06-13-2012, 06:26 PM   #8
VEGASROBBI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jake_blue View Post
Changing tire sizes and aftermarket modifications like lift kits can fundamentally change the handling of the vehicle so the electronic systems may begin detecting lateral forces that were not so pronounced when it was stock.
You are correct, ERM is a function of ESP. Changing tire size not only changes vehicle dynamics but also affects the calculations the abs and other modules makes to keep the vehicle stable; the reason vss needs to be accurate.
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Unread 06-13-2012, 06:35 PM   #9
2007UnlimitedNJ
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I installed the same tires except 275/70 r18 and have the same exact issue. I thought it was just still rubbing a little on the front left sway bar when i reached the right speed while turning right on an exit ramp.

The diagnosis of the stability control sounds like a better answer since I put on 1.5 in spacers and still have the issue occassionally. Thanks.

If I correct the speedo with the AEV Procal, should that correct it?

I am going to turn off my ESP and take the ramp that seems to get the jeep to make the noise... Hope I don't roll.
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Unread 06-13-2012, 10:40 PM   #10
VEGASROBBI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2007UnlimitedNJ View Post
I installed the same tires except 275/70 r18 and have the same exact issue. I thought it was just still rubbing a little on the front left sway bar when i reached the right speed while turning right on an exit ramp.

The diagnosis of the stability control sounds like a better answer since I put on 1.5 in spacers and still have the issue occassionally. Thanks.

If I correct the speedo with the AEV Procal, should that correct it?

I am going to turn off my ESP and take the ramp that seems to get the jeep to make the noise... Hope I don't roll.
Pressing the ESP button does not turn off ESP, it turns off torque reduction(traction control) so you can go through mud or snow and spin the tires without bogging down. Most of the active braking functions remain on.

Your Jeep has a steering angle sensor(SAS) in the steering wheel. Combined with the 4 wheel speed sensors (WSS) ESP can predict your intended path and your actual path. Larger diameter tires magnify the differential wheel speeds when not going straight. Part of ESP is to keep you on what it perceives to be you intended path. Brake assisted steering comes in when ESP feels you are not.

ESP can properly be calibrated for tires up to 32" by a dealer. If driving with 37's gliding around a freeway off ramp and ESP kicks in it will scare the cr*p out of you. You could change lanes unexpectedly or worse go into oncoming traffic. One time is enough for you to want to disable ESP.

Some guys install a switch to disable ESP, there are many threads on this. Chrysler realizing the problem came up with a steering wheel dance to disable all of ESP.

Running 33's should not be a problem with ESP. Calibrating the vss helps ESP make the correct calculations. Most vss corrections over 32" are done outside the main calibration so a Procal or Superchips is required.
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Unread 06-14-2012, 01:53 AM   #11
SubAtomicGenius
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Like many others, I've upped my tire game to 35's, done a steering wheel and toe-in/general wheel alignment (myself), and recalibrated the speedo with the AEV Procal and have had ZERO issues with traction control, ABS, ESP or the like. Somewhere in that long mess of procedures is the answer to your problems!

In addition, I do plan on installing an "ESP disable" switch when I install my custom switch panel down the road.

Cheers!
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Unread 06-14-2012, 01:57 AM   #12
jake_blue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VEGASROBBI View Post
Most vss corrections over 32" are done outside the main calibration so a Procal or Superchips is required.
Yup. After reprogramming to the proper tire size with my superchips I never had the problem again and I can be a pretty spirited highway driver!
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Unread 06-14-2012, 06:12 AM   #13
panthermark
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There was a TSB on 2007 Wranglers for the specific problem. You have a 2007 correct?

---------------------------------

NUMBER: 05-001-08
GROUP: Brakes
DATE: January 18, 2008

SUBJECT:
Electronic Stability Control Disable Feature For Modified 4WD Vehicles

OVERVIEW:
This bulletin involves selectively erasing and reprogramming the Anti-Lock Brake/Electronic Stability Module (ABS), the Cabin Control Node (CCN), and the Totally Integrated Power Module (TIPM) with new software. Once these modules have been reprogrammed (flashed), a sequence of steps will be required to disable or enable the vehicle Electronic Stability Program (ESP).

MODELS:
2007 (JK) Wrangler
NOTE: This bulletin applies to Four Wheel Drive (4WD) vehicles.

DISCUSSION:
Vehicles modified with larger tires and/or suspension lifts may experience early Electronic Stability Program (ESP) activations as compared to a non-modified production vehicle depending on lift size/height, tire size, suspension changes and/or driving habits.

If early ESP activations are experienced while driving with a modified vehicle, the additional ability to permanently turn off ESP is available. This ESP permanently disable feature can be obtained once the ABS, CCN, and TIPM modules have been flashed / reprogrammed with the correct level of software, as described in the Repair Procedure.

After completing reprogramming of the modules, an ignition switch, steering wheel and ESP button maneuver must be performed to permanently disable ESP and to turn off the functionality of the ESP switch. Once the ESP system is placed into permanent disable
mode, the ESP Telltale will be illuminated in the instrument cluster, and the vehicle odometer will display a “ESP OFF” message. The ESP permanent disable feature DOES NOT disable the vehicle Anti-Lock Brakes (ABS) or the Brake Assist System (BAS), when the feature is implemented per this Service Bulletin Repair Procedure.

Repeating the ESP permanent disable maneuver procedure will return the system to normal ESP operation and restore ESP switch functionality allowing for ESP ”Full”, “Partial”, or “Off” modes.
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Unread 06-14-2012, 07:16 AM   #14
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WARNING:
With ESP in the permanent disabled mode, the enhanced vehicle stability
offered by the Electronic Stability Program (ESP) and Electronic Roll
Mitigation (ERM) systems is unavailable. In an emergency evasive
maneuver, the ESP and ERM systems will not engage to assist in
maintaining vehicle stability. This disabled mode is intended for off-road
use only. Vehicle modifications requiring the owner to configure the
vehicle in the ESP disabled mode, will seriously affect the vehicle
roadworthiness, safety, and may lead to loss of control and/or accident
resulting in serious injury or fatal injuries.
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Unread 06-14-2012, 07:50 AM   #15
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You learn something every day!
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