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Unread 12-03-2010, 05:36 AM   #76
paul84043
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Originally Posted by thedirtman View Post
How do you "right off" the tax? Sales tax is not deductible. I did the math on the difference not the sticker and used 8% as I do not know what your sales tax rate is there.
Sales tax is absolutely deductible if you itemize. With a high dollar amount like the purchase of a car it's worth it. If you own a home, then you're itemizing anyway.
This past year when we purchased our 2010 Jetta TDI, we claimed sales tax and claimed the clean vehicle credit!! Saved us 3500$.

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Unread 12-03-2010, 07:01 AM   #77
thedirtman
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I am wrong about the sales tax deduction. I checked with the IRS website and you can in fact deduct sales tax but if you do you can not claim your state and local income tax so you have to choose either or.

Sales Tax Deduction Calculator
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Unread 12-03-2010, 09:08 AM   #78
JFD140
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So would popular opinion agree that the airbag is worth the $2300 more... (softtop too but i dont need it)
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Unread 12-03-2010, 11:52 AM   #79
verdugan
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Originally Posted by JFD140 View Post
So would popular opinion agree that the airbag is worth the $2300 more... (softtop too but i dont need it)
As a fireman/paramedic, I would think that you've seen first hand that air bags can help save lives. The more bags the merrier.

I don't think that airbags are worth $2300 (due to the softop you don't want). The solution? Look for another Jeep. There are more than just 2 JK's out there.

If the dealer doesn't want to work with you, there are plenty of dealers near you. Don't get pressured into paying for things that you don't want.

Worse come to worse, look into doing a factory order and get exactly what you want.
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Unread 12-03-2010, 12:18 PM   #80
JFD140
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Yea i seen some bad stuff... hence why i want the air bags.

I definately think i am better off finding one without the soft top, but i have checked the inventories of multiple dealers around me and am not really finding one that has everything i want in a color i want.

If it comes down to ordering it, i would rather just pay the extra $1000 then wait 2 months.
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Unread 12-03-2010, 12:21 PM   #81
verdugan
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Originally Posted by JFD140 View Post
If it comes down to ordering it, i would rather just pay the extra $1000 then wait 2 months.
Cool. In that case, the airbags are worth the extra money

Expand your search. Look as far North as Boston, as far South as DC. You can hop on a train and drive back.
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Unread 12-03-2010, 12:25 PM   #82
JFD140
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Originally Posted by verdugan View Post
Cool. In that case, the airbags are worth the extra money

Expand your search. Look as far North as Boston, as far South as DC. You can hop on a train and drive back.
lol.


Here is what makes the one i am looking at expensive

Customer Preferred Package 24S $ 2,200
Power Heated Mirrors
P255/75R17 OWL On/Off-Road Tires
17-Inch Aluminum Wheels
Power Convenience Group
Power Windows with Front One-Touch-
Down Feature
Power Locks
Remote Keyless Entry
Security Alarm
Leather-Wrapped Steering Wheel
Chrome Shift Knob


Everything on there i want excluding the tires/rims. Are they decent tires that it comes with? I really want huge tires and blacked out rims. Could i just sell the rims/tires after i get the car lol.
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Unread 12-03-2010, 12:57 PM   #83
Mol
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Originally Posted by thedirtman View Post
Using my numbers if you would pay $709.31 more in interest on a 72 month loan vs a 60 month loan without any extra payments.

If you have more exact numbers later I would be glad to help you with it.

Also if you get a loan make sure you can pay it off early without penalty. Some dealers will lock you in to the full loan interest even if you pay it off early.
Just to contribute (I am a GM dealer), it is VERY uncommon that a loan through a reputible dealer is anything other than a simple interest loan (unless you happen to be using their in-house financing, which means that you probably have bad credit and a bank won't buy you). What you do want to look for is a loan with no pre-payment penalty. Meaning, if you pay it off early, you will not have 3% of the remaining loan amount or $150 added onto your payoff, whichever is greater (these numbers are not concrete, each bank does it differently). What you also have to compare is interest rate - if a loan through, say Huntington, has a 3.90% interest rate but includes a pre-payment penalty, vs. a loan through a local credit union at 4.74% with no pre-payment penalty - will the difference in interest cover the cost of the pre-payment penalty?

I actually took a Huntington loan with pre-payment penalty recently because the interest rate was good enough and affected the monthly payment enough that it outweighed a possible $150-$350 tacked onto a payoff several years down the line.

Different banks have different service fees as well (like a loan origination fee on a mortgage) that is not itemized in the contract and can substantially adjust the APR, especially considering that some banks allow the dealer to mark-up the bank fee.

Also keep in mind (and maybe you already have, I didn't read all the way through) that in many states (Ohio, where I live for example) sales tax is calculated on the difference of the cost of the new car and the value of your trade. $30,000 sale price, $10,000 trade, only $20,000 is taxed.

Also, buy a Tread Lightly membership for $25.00 and you can get a code for Jeep Preferred Pricing (the Chrysler Supplier Discount). This typically drops you $100-$200 below invoice without bickering with a salesperson. Most current offers/incentives can still be used, if any exist.



Tread Lightly - Tread Lightly! Discount on Jeep, Dodge, Ram, Chrysler Vehicles
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Unread 12-03-2010, 01:12 PM   #84
JFD140
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Whats the odds of me getting even less than the tread lightly deal by haggling?

A couple people mentioned on a 30,000 invoice i should be trying to pay 28,000

Like say i got the tread lightly deal, i go to the salesman and say look, i have this deal, i already get 1% below invoice no matter where i go, if you want me to make my purchase here, what more can you do for me than someone else?
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Unread 12-03-2010, 01:38 PM   #85
Mol
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Here is my thought process, and perhaps you can understand if you happen to a business owner/business minded at all.

As a dealership, my goal is not to rip anyone off (though many - most - deserve the stealership name they have been dubbed), but to find a happy medium where you are getting a good deal and I am still making a profit. Nobody goes into business to lose money, and making them lose money should not be your goal, I'm sure you can understand this.

With that said, Chrysler and GM have similar amounts of markup between cost, invoice, and MSRP. Variances in actual cost will come with holdback, advertising (depending upon whether they pay into their national ad group, local ad group, both, or neither).

Here is an example of a 2011 GMC Terrain:

Front Wheel Drive SLT-1 base price, $27,850
Sunroof $795
Power liftgate $495
Premium audio with touchscreen navi, aux jack, USB, 40GB HDD $2,145
Trailering package $350

Total model and options $31,635
Destination charge $745

MSRP $32,380
Invoice $30,707.98
My cost as the dealer $29,600.75
Advertising cost $158.18

Net cost $29,758.93

GM Preferred Price (supplier discount) $31,049.26
I am kicked back $276.57 from GM for honoring the preferred price

SO, by selling at the preferred price, my cost adjusts to $29,482.36
My gross profit then is $1,566.90, an approx. 5% return on a $29.5K investment.

After paying my salesperson $521, my gross profit actually adjusts to ~ $1,045. Keep in mind that most dealers do not pay their salespeople as well as we do, the average dealer would probably pay about $391 on a gross profit of that level.

But my question to you is this - assuming the profit margin on the Wrangler is similar to that of the Terrain, what would you deem as fair to both parties? Or do you simply not give a ****, you want to take every penny you can from the dealership?

I would sell this Terrain for $29,800 +/- a few dollars, but not all dealerships want to move units the way that I do...the more I sell today, the better allocation I have next year. On the flip side of the coin, if you cam in and said you wanted $2k behind invoice, I would first ask you where in the world you came up with that number, and then I would simply say sorry, not happening as I am not in business to lose money - most people can understand this.

Hope this gives you a little insight - as a disclaimer, markup is not what it used to be (though Mercedes still runs 13-21% from what I understand) - hope this means something coming from a dealers mouth with no biased opinion due to interest in selling you a car.

Mike


EDIT: I only get that kickback for the preferred price if you have a Supplier discount authorization number (like the tread lightly deal), this is my incentive to honor this price. If I sell you this car for that price or lower to make a deal, I do not get that money back. Probably didn;t have to clarify that, but just incase
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Unread 12-03-2010, 01:53 PM   #86
Mol
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Originally Posted by JFD140 View Post
Like say i got the tread lightly deal, i go to the salesman and say look, i have this deal, i already get 1% below invoice no matter where i go, if you want me to make my purchase here, what more can you do for me than someone else?
Sorry I forgot to address this - any dealership is only as good as, firstly, their service department. The service department is every dealership's #1 salesperson. Secondly, they are only as good as the people they have on their sales floor representing them.

My sales philosophy is this: If I can find a way to get you to like me, you will find a way to do business with me. Find a person that isn't just having diahrreah of the mouth, but is listening to you, listening to what you want, and finding ways to get you what you want. The person that takes the time to greet your four year old son and find common interests in football, or biking, or whatever the hell. My goal is to make friends with every person that walks through my door. Look for that guy/girl.

If you can't come across the person that cares, ask for add ons. Free car washes any time you want to stop by, a loaner vehicle while you're in service - for example dropping your car off at 730am, taking a car of theirs to work, picking yours back up after work. I save these as negotiating tools, or if I don;t need them, I offer them anyway after I have closed a deal. Most dealerships will do this, and if they won't, they don't deserve your business because theres another one down the road that will.

When I car shop outside of my dealership, I don't car shop - I people shop, because the right person will help me get the car that I already know that I want, whether they have it or not.
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Unread 12-03-2010, 02:22 PM   #87
JFD140
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Thank you for that excellent explanation.

I didn't understand how people claim to get $4000 below sticker...

I am unhappy with ny current dealerships incentives and service department.

The same guy owns the one I am looking into now but they are totally separate operations.

The one I am looking into now offers free oil for life and some other perks.


So I should definately join tread lightly?
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Unread 12-03-2010, 02:49 PM   #88
Mol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFD140 View Post
Thank you for that excellent explanation.

I didn't understand how people claim to get $4000 below sticker...

I am unhappy with ny current dealerships incentives and service department.

The same guy owns the one I am looking into now but they are totally separate operations.

The one I am looking into now offers free oil for life and some other perks.


So I should definately join tread lightly?
Typically most people are either imbelishing, or have no idea what they're talking about, or there was a national program/sale happening where the manufacturer has subsidized the **** out of a given vehicle.

Can't hurt to join tread lightly - like I said, I would sell mine for the preferred pricing or even a few hundred dollars better even if you dont have an authorization number - but you won't get there easily. The benefit to the tread lightly is that you're not beating around the bush, spending hours pulling your hair out messing around with some guy that has to get his manager's approval to wipe his own ***. You skip that and get right to the price, and then you tell them that you understand that You will get the same price on an identical vehicle anywhere...so what can they do to set themselves apart, be it in car washes, oil changes, throw ins, or cash. Hell, tell him the last guy gave you $338 under the preferred price as long as you gave them a code, plus all weather floor mats and car washes, or whatever. Maybe he won't offer you anything, maybe he will offer a few things. It's worth a shot, and at the end of the day, you're not ****ing him, he's not ****ing you, life goes on.
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Unread 12-03-2010, 05:07 PM   #89
him
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I did the tread lightly deal a few weeks ago. Worked out well for me. I didn't even try to negotiate a better-than-preferred price, but I did get above-and-beyond service and a few freebies from the dealership. I think everyone was happy.
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