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Unread 09-04-2009, 08:29 AM   #1
4x4jeepcrew
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teraflex la vs. rubicon express la

which lift would most of you guys get for your 4 doors if you could get either one? the teraflex 4" LA system or the rubicon express 4.5" la. and this is with the assumption that i have aftermarket front and rear driveshafts

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Unread 09-04-2009, 09:38 AM   #2
Xtremjeepn
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Neither. At 4.5" of lift I think there are better options.

There is some serious "marketing hype" left over from the TJ bleeding into what is right and wrong on a JK.

A TJ came stock with 30" tires as the largest size and the stock control arms are ~16" long. The JK control arms are 22.619" long and fits 32" tires stock. That is a 41.4% increase in control arm length. Which is not the only variable that is different. The mounts for springs, control arms etc on the JK are all totally different than on a TJ. What all this means is that what was NEEDED on a TJ is not the case on a JK.

To fit 35s on a TJ you needed ~6" of lift if done with all suspension and no trimming. This put a HUGE angle change on the 16" arms. To run the same 35" tire on a JK you need 2.5-3.5" of lift. Which is not a major change to the almost 23" arms. Even at 4.5" inches of lift it is still not that larger of a change. At 4.5" of lift the % of angle change is more equal to a TJ with a 2" lift.

As long as you are using the stock frame mount location a stock length arm is going to put your axle dead center in the wheel well and bump stop at full compression. That is what it is supposed to do. That is why they look slightly off set forward(in the rear) and reaward(in the front) when lifted.

The "Mid-Arm" rear arms like the RK are great for putting the wheel back center at rest, but when fully compressed the axle and tire are going to be offset of the bumpstop and sit rearward in the wheel well. Not a huge issue, you just need to be aware of it and adjust your bumpstop location and rear bumper accordingly. If not you could be in for a surprise at full stuff. (especially if running fast down a fire road after a trail).

"long arms" on some of the kits make me nervous. They mount the upper arms outside the frame rails which is not proper geometry for good handling. The arms need to come closer together. Which would require relocating the gas tank, or comming completely center like RK does.

The other issue I see is that some of them take the long lower frame mount and move it UP on the frame rail. This is great for clearance but you just increased the angle again from the stock point. (sometimes by 8"+) which negates the point of the long arms. (or would require even longer arms at that point).
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Unread 09-04-2009, 09:44 AM   #3
Thisisaustin
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Teraflex, no doubt
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Unread 09-04-2009, 09:49 AM   #4
Xtremjeepn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thisisaustin View Post
Teraflex, no doubt


And why do you say this?


The rear track bar defines the "roll center" of the vehicle. The more you lift the Jeep away from the roll center the more prone to rolling over it is. This can be corrected when lifting a Jeep by raising the axle end of the rear track bar.

If you raise it equal to the lift you will restore a "stock" like roll center. Raise it more and you get even more stability, decreasing the lever arm and making the Jeep LESS prone to rolling.

Every Teraflex Jeep I have looked under LOWERS the frame end of the rear track bar to try to restore its geometry. This is lowering the roll center, increasing the lever arm and making the jeep MORE prone to rolling over.

First, I would hope they have corrected this issue. Second, I would worry about the other geometry in the suspension.
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Unread 09-04-2009, 10:21 AM   #5
DBA2GO
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So 4x4jeepcrew are looking to put long arms on your WJ? This is a JK tech forum. A little more details would be helpful. I have Teraflex FlexieArms (just slightly longer than stock & still adjustable length) and really love them. I don't know enough about the WJ to give an opinion.
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Unread 09-04-2009, 10:37 AM   #6
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Well, for me I love my RE 4.5" long arm it handles great on road and the limited time it's spent off road it's done just fine. In Oct I'll get to test that out more, but since most of the driving I do is on road, handling well there was really important. I think most people with the RE 4.5" LA are really pleased with it too and quite a few around here have it, so hopefully they will chime in.

The Teraflex kit gets high marks too it seems and one thing I like about it is it is upgradeable to the 6" kit without buying a completely new kit.

Xtrem didn't mention it, but he seems to really dig the AEV kit and has put it through it's paces pretty well so far.

Of course if you go on the "other" forum, the only one of these that's acceptable is the Teraflex kit, as they're pretty outspoken about disliking the radius arms of the RE kit and I think the cam bolts of the AEV kit.

Personally, I don't think you could go wrong with any of the above lifts.
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Unread 09-04-2009, 10:45 AM   #7
Dr.Dirty
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I dont think youll be dissapointed in either kit

you will get better customer service and support with teraflex

I run the Rubicon express 4.5 long arm kit and it works great i just go thru bushings like no tommorow


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Unread 09-04-2009, 11:47 AM   #8
4x4jeepcrew
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DBA2GO, to answer your question... i may be planning on getting a 4 door jk and passing my current jeep down to my brother. im just wondering which most people would go with.

I also wanted to ask you guys what is essential at 3-3.5" on a jk? coils, shocks, trackbars, and endlinks?
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Unread 09-04-2009, 12:54 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4jeepcrew View Post
which lift would most of you guys get for your 4 doors if you could get either one? the teraflex 4" LA system or the rubicon express 4.5" la. and this is with the assumption that i have aftermarket front and rear driveshafts
Neither, Rock Krawler's multi-options of LA's vs any of these.
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Unread 09-04-2009, 03:29 PM   #10
DBA2GO
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Like I said earlier I don't use L.A. I just use Teraflex flexie arms. I use KORE springs, Bilstein shocks; drive shafts from 2 different companies; steering stabilizer & track bars from 2 different companies... The list just goes on & on. It is a great vehicle. My first Jeep. So, I'm pretty new to the Jeep-O-Nomics; but its fun to do the mods & see what works & what I can break.

You've got a lucky brother to get your WJ.
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Unread 09-04-2009, 07:46 PM   #11
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Whats up with RE's spherical joints? I'm not hijacking, just concerned because I hear about them seizing after 5-10k, even with regular greasing. What kind of joint does Teraflex utilize? If it were up to me and longevity was a big player I would hit up either Currie, Clayton or Poly Performance for some Johnny Joints IMO. Just contributing a thought....
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Unread 09-05-2009, 09:09 AM   #12
Dr.Dirty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s1edneck700 View Post
Whats up with RE's spherical joints? I'm not hijacking, just concerned because I hear about them seizing after 5-10k, even with regular greasing. What kind of joint does Teraflex utilize? If it were up to me and longevity was a big player I would hit up either Currie, Clayton or Poly Performance for some Johnny Joints IMO. Just contributing a thought....
I know lots of guys running the RE kit and havent had on joint seize

i have 25k on my lift and the only think theat has been replaced is the rubber bushings
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Unread 09-05-2009, 02:30 PM   #13
planman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xtremjeepn View Post
Every Teraflex Jeep I have looked under LOWERS the frame end of the rear track bar to try to restore its geometry. This is lowering the roll center, increasing the lever arm and making the jeep MORE prone to rolling over.

First, I would hope they have corrected this issue. Second, I would worry about the other geometry in the suspension.
Here is a pic of the TF JK 4" LA:



That r-shaped piece in the lower left corner is their axle-side rear trackbar relocation bracket. At 3"+, Teraflex does not use a frame end lowering trackbar bracket.

Teraflex suspensions have come a long way in the last 3-5 years. I'd think you'd be pleasantly suprised to see the products they now manufacture.
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Unread 09-05-2009, 05:50 PM   #14
Xtremjeepn
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I just looked under a TF bb 2.5" kit and that lowers the upper end of the rear track bar. Semms they can't decide which way to go.

Maybe they want the cheap kit to handle poorly on purpose to get you interested in "solving" the issue with the LA KIT.
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Unread 09-06-2009, 11:31 AM   #15
planman
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Looks like their engineers decided on a frame side drop for a 2-3" lift and an axle side for a 3" or more lift.

Some other manufacturers have done an axle side raised bracket for the lower lifts that bolts on at the stock axle side bracket--resulting in too much leverage on the stock axle side bracket and eventual failure of the stock bracket welds.

The 3" or taller axle side bracket does not rely on just the stock bracket and stock bracket welds. It ties into multiple points and uses u-bolts around the axle tube to prevent failure of the stock axle side bracket and welds.


With just a cursory look at other manufacturers, most use a frame side drop for less than 3" kifts and an axle side bracket for 3" or more lifts. So, their engineers must have come to the same conclusion as Teraflex.

I ran a 2.5" Teraflex BB on my 2 door for more than 12k miles and never had handling problems or felt unstable cornering or driving winding mountain curvy roads. So, I am personally satisfied that most other manufacturers' engineers design their shorter kits that way for a reason--other than some attempt to purposefully push consumers to a 3" or taller lift.

Teraflex uses the axle side bracket with their 3" lift an anything taller--not just on their long arm kits. Here is their 3" kit:





As disclosure, we run a Teraflex 6" long arm with Off Road Evolution coilovers/King shocks/rear EVO lever system on my wife's 4dr JK.

On my 2dr JK, I run an OME/JKS/RE/Teraflex/Currie/Skyjacker combination that equates to a 3" lift.

On our 04 TJ, we run BDS 3" springs and shocks, all 8 Teraflex control arms and rear trackbar, JKS front trackbar, Teraflex TC/tranny/oil pan skids, Teraflex SYE/rear driveshaft, and JKS disconnects.

On our 01 TJ, we run a 4.5" RE Extreme Duty long arm with front Currie Antirock.

We have been very happy with all the components we currently have on our rigs.

I've run components from several different manufacturers. However, we have only run the current generation of Teraflex products--rubber bushings on one end and a Jonny-Joint style flex joint on the other end. I'd have no hesitation running anything Teraflex in the future--although I do like the AEV front steering correction better than the Teraflex front steering correction we have on my wife's rig.
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