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Unread 04-19-2012, 07:22 AM   #16
wardo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MudDuck99 View Post
With the RK 2.5 stock mod lift, will I just need shocks to complete the lift?

Also, Would adding Unlimited coils to the front compensate for the extra weight?
Yup, just add some shocks. I went with the Bilsteins. Absolutely love it. Winch should finally be added this weekend

From what I've read you can add unlimited coils. If you want, I can ask my buddy with a 4dr (just put a lift on his) and see what he wants for his coils. Also have some factory Rubi shocks if you want haha.

but let me know about the jku coils if you want to go that route.

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Unread 09-28-2012, 04:38 PM   #17
JeepCO12
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I may start another thread but don't want to be told to go use the search feature... This one is one of many I have read on this subject and I am really surprised at the somewhat random approach to addressing this issue - the OP and others on different threads want to add a front bumper and winch (which I am also considering) but is concerned about selecting the correct spring / shock combination so as not to ruin the vehicle handling.

I am in the dark technically on this as well. However, it seems to me that you can't hang 200lbs of weight on the front of the vehicle without impacting the handling somewhat - the extra weight there should induce more understeer in a highway speed turn for example and there will be more diving under braking (or when stuffing the front in a hole off road). So you can correct some of it with different springs and some of it with a bigger tire contact patch on the road.

Just putting spacers in will raise the front of the Jeep but surely you have induced more compression in your springs from the added load and therefore shortened the downward travel available. I weigh 175 and when I stand on the front bumper it sags just over 3/4".

A friend of mine suggested I get a 2" old man emu lift and then add the bumpers and winch. Then go to 33" tires when the OEMs wear out. Sounds good and there are a lot of positive comments about that lift kit. However, the Jeep design engineers went through a bunch of calculations and field testing to figure out the appropriate spring rate and shock combination for a Rubicon. Surely there is a formula somewhere we can look at which would tell us if you add x lbs to the front and x lbs to the rear you need this spring to match the factory ride and if wanted that spring to make it stiffer etc? I have read of people putting the 2" lift on and getting more like 3.5". This seems a completely random approach to something which should be accurately engineered. Its alarming too because higher lifts have inpacts on drive shafts and suspension geometry.

Am I missing something? Can someone point me to a thread or discussion which might help me zero in on a bumper / suspension combination that has predictable results? I am new to Jeeps but I am very impressed with what our 2012 Rubicon unlimited could do in Moab and then give a great highway ride home - I do not want to undertake some expensive mod that has unpredictable results. And my wife would be seriously upset if it gets screwed up!
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Unread 09-28-2012, 07:00 PM   #18
lowendrider
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I fixed mine with factory springs with a higher number. I went from 14s in the front to 17s and it leveled me out perfectly, meaning it sits higher with bumper/winch than it did stock. My bumper winch combo was lighter than yours though....around 120-130lbs.
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Unread 09-28-2012, 11:25 PM   #19
Coolcatracing
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There's numerous threads about the various spring numbers available on the stock wranglers and how much lift they will give you. The good part about doing anything to a wrangler these days is several people have already done it and posted about it. There's no single thread that I've ever seen but you're welcome to make one if you like.
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Unread 09-29-2012, 07:46 AM   #20
JeepCO12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolcatracing View Post
There's numerous threads about the various spring numbers available on the stock wranglers and how much lift they will give you. The good part about doing anything to a wrangler these days is several people have already done it and posted about it. There's no single thread that I've ever seen but you're welcome to make one if you like.
I think I've read several of them. But a lot of posts also end in unpredictable results - like getting 3.5" actual lift out of a 2" lift. I have not found a discussion that talks about spring rates and weight calculations and how to relate them to the kits out there. Looking around for someone that has already tried the same bumper combination and lift kit and can say it worked is one way to go but it should be more scientific than that. I was hoping to find something like hilldwellers headlight shoot out thread for bumper weights and lift kits...some objective results.

I'll read some more...
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Unread 09-29-2012, 12:39 PM   #21
Coolcatracing
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Try starting a thread for everyone to post in and show what they got. I know many actual lift kits are designed for the advertised lift with the normal bumper/winch weight which I'm guessing would be set around 175lbs. A thread like that would be a good central listing of what to expect with each lift/spring combo.
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Unread 09-29-2012, 02:50 PM   #22
TianBratton
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JKS ACOS (adjustable coil over spacers) I've got a set and they have been awesome. Installed when jk was stock and have since added OME 2" heavy lift and it rides great now. I had wondering issues at first and found I needed to play with the caster but I couldn't afford adj. control arms tried cam bolts but no dice. Found AEV had C.A. Drop Brkts. Installed Brkts. Removed bolts and wondering is almost gone. I think I need a little more +caster but I can't seem to find out how much is to much. As far as the ride goes it very smooth better than stock. Anyway bottom line is the ACOS r perfect for situations like yours because u can adjust them from 1" to 3.5" whenever u want. They r well built and u can use them with any spring. Also JKS has been very helpfull when I have a ? And it seems they stand behind there products. I hope my ramble helps.
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Unread 09-29-2012, 02:54 PM   #23
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By the way when I first started modding my jk I herd people say every jeep is different and in my experience this is so true it's kind of scary. So what works for one guy might not work at all for another.
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Unread 09-30-2012, 11:20 AM   #24
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Well adding weight to the front would seem like it would induce oversteer...
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Unread 09-30-2012, 11:42 AM   #25
JeepCO12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolcatracing View Post
Try starting a thread for everyone to post in and show what they got. I know many actual lift kits are designed for the advertised lift with the normal bumper/winch weight which I'm guessing would be set around 175lbs. A thread like that would be a good central listing of what to expect with each lift/spring combo.
OK - I'll do that - I expect I will get some responses to go and use the search button as there are a lot of bumper threads already... we'll see
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Unread 09-30-2012, 11:51 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TianBratton View Post
JKS ACOS (adjustable coil over spacers) I've got a set and they have been awesome. Installed when jk was stock and have since added OME 2" heavy lift and it rides great now. I had wondering issues at first and found I needed to play with the caster but I couldn't afford adj. control arms tried cam bolts but no dice. Found AEV had C.A. Drop Brkts. Installed Brkts. Removed bolts and wondering is almost gone. I think I need a little more +caster but I can't seem to find out how much is to much. As far as the ride goes it very smooth better than stock. Anyway bottom line is the ACOS r perfect for situations like yours because u can adjust them from 1" to 3.5" whenever u want. They r well built and u can use them with any spring. Also JKS has been very helpfull when I have a ? And it seems they stand behind there products. I hope my ramble helps.
Thanks for the ramble - and it does illustrate my point a bit. You installed a moderate lift and still ran into some issues. I am wondering why the 2" lift is not designed with all the parts necessary and a range of suggested adjustments to things like castor so when you fit it, you don't get surprises like that.

The spacers are one way to go but (and maybe I am over thinking here) it seems to me that they just lift the vehicle and your springs are now more compressed from the weight and so have less travel than they were designed for. I would think that the optimum course is to take the factory springs out and replace with stiffer springs designed to cope with an extra +/- 175 lbs of weight on that end of the vehicle while maintaining the same amount of suspension travel. If correctly set up they should not need spacers to adjust the ride height. - well I guess you might have maybe 1/2" to level the vehicle if the springs are designed for a given weight and you put a heavier bumper winch combo than they designed for.

I'll go start a thread and see what responses I get
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Unread 09-30-2012, 02:55 PM   #27
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Spacers do keep the spring slightly compressed but it won't limit travel because the bump stops still stop the axle before you will get to spring bind anyways. Spacers are a great way to fine tune the ride height. The best way is to change the springs to higher rate springs to compensate for the weight but adjustments in height can still easily be done with spacers with no downsides. A simple 2" spacer lift/leveling kit can be done with very little ill effects and does not need new arms.
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Unread 10-01-2012, 08:40 AM   #28
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Adding a bumper and winch on my '12 Rubicon caused about a quarter-inch drop and no real noticeable nosediving on the brakes. You can feel the weight up front however in the handling at speed.
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Unread 10-02-2012, 03:16 PM   #29
weiva
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In all likelihood I'm wrong about continuing to drive around on the stockers post front and rear bumpers, but ....

Measured degree slope at hood stock (2.6 degrees)
Measured degree slope at hood no bumper (2.2 degrees)
Measured degree slope at hood after front bumper/winch - (2.6 degrees)

6 months later, slope remained the same although the ride and braking felt like it suffered. I was plowing into turns and very front heavy in braking. So I bought a rear bumper.

Measured degree slope at hood after both bumper/winch, - (2.2 degrees). Ride now feels fine to me. YMMV.
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Unread 10-02-2012, 07:27 PM   #30
TheBoss
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The Teraflex 1.5" leveling coils are a great option . No adjustable arms or track bar replacement needed. They handle the weight of the bumper and winch without sacrificing ride quality. Stock shocks can also be re-used. I ran this set up initially when we got our JKU it flexed well off road and handled nice on road.
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