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Unread 03-12-2010, 12:23 PM   #46
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yeah the real time data is pretty cool.


now someone please answer the main question at hand. Will the flashpaq help out at all in the mountains or is it not worth it.

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Unread 03-12-2010, 12:29 PM   #47
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honestly, it probably won't help out much in the mountains depending on the elevation you're talking about due to the thinner air. The performance increase isn't that much on its own so unless you're running the 91 octane mode, you probably won't see enough of a difference to satisfy your purchase. Now, if you regeared and got the MBRP exhaust as well, I think you'd see a difference as a whole. I'm out here in Houston where everything is flat and at sea level.
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Unread 03-12-2010, 12:31 PM   #48
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alright that is what I wanted to know thanks

procal here I come!
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Unread 03-12-2010, 01:25 PM   #49
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ALL top tier fuels NOW have the SAME add pack (cleaning detergents) regardless of octane, that wasn't as common in the 80's but, has been reversed by the auto manufacturers w/ advent of fuel injection systems,...example: whether you run Chevron 87 or 92, the techron additive (provided the driver mixed it correctly) is the same...(go to the websites and see...)

Besides, the higher octane CAN be detrimental to an engine as the timing/fuel trim won't "swing" as properly designed, ...OCTANE is needed typically for compression ratios and very a (very) advanced timing curve, something VERY few cars have anymore that REQUIRE (though about 6% recommend premium-which is designeated 91 or above octane nowadays),...

in fact most/all vehicle ECMs compensate for fuel detonation regadless of octane used. Pinging LIGHTLY and occasional moderation, disappearing fast is fine and not harmful to a "normal condition" motor, in fact, all else equal, that proves your engine is working at maximum levels designed (though the ECM will fast retard and it should disappear shortly).

The gas cos would LOVE you to believe the hype, don't...It was a) the Mobil One Oil (above) and the modern fuel combustion that burns very clean that makes motors so nice after 100K miles. 2) The death of the carbureator/choke and c) distributors that caused all the problems of past pinging...OBD I and II made a BIG difference!

YES, I know two engineers that work for the major petro co's....they spend MORE on merketing than research! Oh, modern engines don't consistently "ping and sputter" like the days gone by, if your's does, THAT is a problem w/ the ECM control system, don't use higher octane to mask the problem (might as well turn up the radio - it's cheaper!)
I don't have any Chevron stations local to me, and Shell's 93 octane "V-power" does have much more cleaning additives based on all of their documentation.

If 35-38 degrees of timing isn't advanced enough to require premium, I don't know what is. The flashpaq on 93 tune advances the timing that much under load. If you run the 93 tune on 87 octane gas, you will get predetonation under load, guaranteed. I witnessed that myself.

I'm not arguing with you, but do understand that I've done my homework on the choices I made.
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Unread 03-12-2010, 01:28 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by mattman8706 View Post
yeah the real time data is pretty cool.


now someone please answer the main question at hand. Will the flashpaq help out at all in the mountains or is it not worth it.
Yes. It will. You will not benefit as much as someone who sticks to flat land at low elevation but you will benefit.

At altitude, you're already running under the rated power of the engine, and any benefit at all is welcomed.

The stock programming can't lean out the fuel/air enough to make up for the loss at altitude. The flashpaq can lean the F/A out more than the stock programming.
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Unread 03-12-2010, 01:49 PM   #51
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I am more talking about the uphill climbs and not really the altitude change
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Unread 03-12-2010, 02:39 PM   #52
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Of course it will help. You are going to see a big improvement in the shifts which will comprehensively change how well the Jeep climbs grades. The power improvement, while not as much as obtained at sea level, will also be helpful.

I understand your apprehension of using the Flashpaq. I don't think you'll have any problem whatsoever selling it on the classifieds here if you don't like it. The complete lack of seeing them for sale here, tells me that the folks who have bought it have been happy with it.
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Unread 03-12-2010, 02:42 PM   #53
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of course IF you use the premium "tune" on the packs you have to use prem grade fuel, but, w/o the added advance and lean fuel trim (stock for example) 87 is fine and will "clean" (if a toptier fuel) just as well...
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Unread 03-12-2010, 02:52 PM   #54
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of course IF you use the premium "tune" on the packs you have to use prem grade fuel, but, w/o the added advance and lean fuel trim (stock for example) 87 is fine and will "clean" (if a toptier fuel) just as well...
I can't argue with that logic. The only stations I have local are Exxon, Coastal, and Shell. From my study on Exxon products, all of their grades have the same amount of clean-burn additives while Shell promotes their 93 as having more than Exxon and more than Shell's own 87 and 89 grades. That's why I chose to run that in all of my vehicles the past 5 years. I get a 3% rebate on all of my fuel purchases on my card, so that helps offset the cost of premium as well.

I'm not promoting Shell's 93 by any means. I felt I needed to explain my reasoning on choosing to run it in all of my vehicles.
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Unread 03-12-2010, 03:37 PM   #55
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good enough, if you're paying only .11 - .14~ per gallon more, the 3% should come close toa lot of that, "yes" shell does add "more" to their 91-93 octane (depends on location, 91 in CA, 92 in NW, 93 east coast, etc) but, all of it's fuels as well as the other "top tier" brands exceed the standard set years ago by manufacturers for fuels. My last note somewhere was that Cevron (now Chev-taxaco) was GM and chryslers testing and fuel used on/off the assembly line, Xyxler charged the dealer $13 for my fuel IAW the invoice from xyxler to dealer for the 5 gallons...since your using the premium, might as well use he high octane setting on the ecm programmer, agreed...
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Unread 03-12-2010, 04:27 PM   #56
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Will the flashpaq help out at all in the mountains or is it not worth it.

NO.

It may "help". But it will not bridge the gap needed in the Colorado rockies to make the needed climbs. The Jeep really needs "At Least" 50hp more to stay in the right gears to pull some of the high altitude climbs well.
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Unread 03-12-2010, 04:43 PM   #57
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NO.

It may "help". But it will not bridge the gap needed in the Colorado rockies to make the needed climbs. The Jeep really needs "At Least" 50hp more to stay in the right gears to pull some of the high altitude climbs well.
Thanks Cole.

Looks like I will get the Procal and just keep doing what I have been doing while climbing the mountains.
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Unread 03-12-2010, 08:21 PM   #58
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Installed mine today with 87 Octane tune. Initial impression is that it is a bit more peppy, but who knows.

I'll have a better idea tomorrow when I throw on my new rims and tires, and start keeping track of the data.

With the new tires and rims, I have almost an additional 200# I am pushing around vice the stockers.
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Unread 03-12-2010, 08:42 PM   #59
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All I can speak for is my experience with Superchips http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f96/s...w-omfg-971812/ BEST $285 I EVER SPENT!!! I Would hate to spend $120 on a procal to turn around and spend another $300 for a Superchips. I read a great write up on JK forum about a guy that did this and said there was no comparison between the two. Superchips hands down!
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Unread 03-12-2010, 09:10 PM   #60
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So which way should I go, I'm debating between the two also. Gears are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy down the road and, I'm poor. Is the Flashpaq not worth it for the occasional bi-monthly trip up into the hills? Rubicon, Auto 4.10, 35's sitting in my garage.
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