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Building a Bumper?Ruffstuff Axle Simple Swap Kit!~Artec JK 1 TON SWAP~

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Unread 03-12-2010, 10:50 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattman8706 View Post
I am not afraid to work on my jeep so that isn't a problem.


I don't really understand the 87, 91, and 93 tune though. What is the difference?

Are they meant for 87 octane 91 octane and 93 octane?
Yes, that corresponds to Octane.

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Unread 03-12-2010, 10:52 AM   #32
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Yes, that corresponds to Octane.
now answer part 2 of that question
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Unread 03-12-2010, 10:54 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by PartyBarge View Post
Unless you add cylinders, the only "gain" you will see is the seat-of-your-pants effect. Same for those guys that say they felt a "boost" when they added a new hi-lift jack. Adrenaline is a mofo.

Will a SuperChips fix some "throttle lag"? Maybe - but so would weight reduction.

You are driving a > 4,000 pound behemoth with a squirrel for a 3.8L. My Jeep comes in at a respectable 4,870 pounds and still manage to pass people on the freeway.
yeah I can still pass people very easily with stock tune 35s and no regearing. Just once I get into the mountains in colorado the engine doesn't hold it's own too well. Maybe the shifting point adjustment would help that though.....
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Unread 03-12-2010, 10:56 AM   #34
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now answer part 2 of that question
Run the right fuel for the corresponding tune. Otherwise you aren't getting the right benefit. It'd be like putting 91 octane into a 94' Corolla. You are wasting money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattman8706 View Post
yeah I can still pass people very easily with stock tune 35s and no regearing. Just once I get into the mountains in colorado the engine doesn't hold it's own too well. Maybe the shifting point adjustment would help that though.....
Get a lighter vehicle. Seriously, these are not sports cars.
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Unread 03-12-2010, 10:58 AM   #35
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Get a lighter vehicle. Seriously, these are not sports cars.

Yep I know that. But I have a jeep for a reason and don't want a lighter vehicle so if it helps in the mountains a little bit it would be worth it.

I am leaning towards the procal at this moment though
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Unread 03-12-2010, 11:08 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by PartyBarge View Post
Unless you add cylinders, the only "gain" you will see is the seat-of-your-pants effect. Same for those guys that say they felt a "boost" when they added a new hi-lift jack. Adrenaline is a mofo.

Will a SuperChips fix some "throttle lag"? Maybe - but so would weight reduction.

You are driving a > 4,000 pound behemoth with a squirrel for a 3.8L. My Jeep comes in at a respectable 4,870 pounds and still manage to pass people on the freeway.
A weight loss has absolutely nothing to do with the lag programmed into the drive-by-wire throttle.

Chrysler has admitted that the lag is intentional, to remove surging when crawling in low range at low speeds on bumpy surfaces.

I dont want crawl programmed throttle when I'm cruising down the highway.
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Unread 03-12-2010, 11:15 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattman8706 View Post
I am not afraid to work on my jeep so that isn't a problem.


I don't really understand the 87, 91, and 93 tune though. What is the difference?

Are they meant for 87 octane 91 octane and 93 octane?

Why would you use 93 octane when its tuned to 91.



someone explain that. I am not too saavy on the performance aspect of vehicles.
I run Shell 93 in everything I have for the extra nitrogen for cleaning and the higher Anti Knock Index number. This enables me a buffer before predetonation/pinging. I've torn into one of my engines to replace a head gasket and after 110,000 miles of Shell 93 and Mobil 1 Extended Performance on extended drain intervals, the engine still looked as new on the inside.

The tuner increases the timing advance (how early the spark plug fires during the compression stroke) and by increasing the octane, you're increasing the AKI (anti-knock/ping index) giving a safety margin for advancing the timing. The 87, 91, and 93 are the different levels of "aggressiveness" of the tuning profiles. They are named as such simply for the recommended fuel for that tuning level for the safety margin of anti-pinging/predetonation.
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Unread 03-12-2010, 11:19 AM   #38
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oh ok I get it now.

hmmmmm more thinking
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Unread 03-12-2010, 11:20 AM   #39
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It'd be like putting 91 octane into a 94' Corolla. You are wasting money.
Not necessarily. It's widely known that premium has increased levels of cleaning additives. If you're going to be the one tearing into your engine later on to replace head gaskets, etc you will appreciate all the help you can get in cleanliness.

To ramble on for a moment... On lower grades of fuel with less cleaning additives, carbon buildup can occur. What happens after carbon begins building up? Well, aside from it being a pain in the arse when you have to tear into it, it also begins increasing your compression ratio by taking up volume in your combustion chamber. Well, by increasing your compression ratio, it can lead to predetonation and pinging under load if you don't somehow increase the AKI of the fuel you're burning. This is partially why "octane boosters" are such a hot seller at the parts houses for folks with older vehicles. They have a lot of carbon buildup increasing the compression ratios requiring a higher octane fuel to abate predetonation. The fact is, instead of buying those $5-15 bottles of additives at every fill-up, they would likely be just fine with running a brand of 93 with extra cleaning additives. Yet, some of those old timers see the real results of those bottles of octane booster and deduce that "today's fuel must be total crap compared to the fuel of just a decade or two ago."

I've been accused of over-analyzing things before, but if I'm going to run 87 octane, I already don't have much buffer from predetonation. If 87 octane has lower levels of cleaning additives and is going to allow carbon to build up, it's going to accelerate predetonation even further. My choice to run 93 from the start was made based on those ideas and thoughts.

Last edited by asknight; 03-12-2010 at 11:41 AM..
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Unread 03-12-2010, 11:46 AM   #40
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ALL top tier fuels NOW have the SAME add pack (cleaning detergents) regardless of octane, that wasn't as common in the 80's but, has been reversed by the auto manufacturers w/ advent of fuel injection systems,...example: whether you run Chevron 87 or 92, the techron additive (provided the driver mixed it correctly) is the same...(go to the websites and see...)

Besides, the higher octane CAN be detrimental to an engine as the timing/fuel trim won't "swing" as properly designed, ...OCTANE is needed typically for compression ratios and very a (very) advanced timing curve, something VERY few cars have anymore that REQUIRE (though about 6% recommend premium-which is designeated 91 or above octane nowadays),...

in fact most/all vehicle ECMs compensate for fuel detonation regadless of octane used. Pinging LIGHTLY and occasional moderation, disappearing fast is fine and not harmful to a "normal condition" motor, in fact, all else equal, that proves your engine is working at maximum levels designed (though the ECM will fast retard and it should disappear shortly).

The gas cos would LOVE you to believe the hype, don't...It was a) the Mobil One Oil (above) and the modern fuel combustion that burns very clean that makes motors so nice after 100K miles. 2) The death of the carbureator/choke and c) distributors that caused all the problems of past pinging...OBD I and II made a BIG difference!

YES, I know two engineers that work for the major petro co's....they spend MORE on merketing than research! Oh, modern engines don't consistently "ping and sputter" like the days gone by, if your's does, THAT is a problem w/ the ECM control system, don't use higher octane to mask the problem (might as well turn up the radio - it's cheaper!)
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Unread 03-12-2010, 11:59 AM   #41
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Jeff's right, and if you run Techron for example, you get ultimate cleaning at low octanes.
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Unread 03-12-2010, 12:08 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by asknight View Post
A weight loss has absolutely nothing to do with the lag programmed into the drive-by-wire throttle.

Chrysler has admitted that the lag is intentional, to remove surging when crawling in low range at low speeds on bumpy surfaces.

I dont want crawl programmed throttle when I'm cruising down the highway.
I understand that - but you bought a Jeep. Crawl is a crucial thing behind our chosen sport. If you don't want crawl - buy a Hummer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by asknight View Post
I run Shell 93 in everything I have for the extra nitrogen for cleaning and the higher Anti Knock Index number.
You should calculate how much money someone is wasting by running an octane not designed for the original fuel map. If your vehicle is tuned for a higher octane then kudos, but I'd be absolutely amazed the extra money you are spending on fuel actually paid off over the course of 100,000 miles.

Proper maintenance, smart driving, and regular check ups will get you to 100,000 miles just as well as putting 87 octane into a 3.8L engine. Modern fuels are clean enough to get you there.
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Unread 03-12-2010, 12:19 PM   #43
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Off topic.... but partybarge you were right. This XRC rear bumper/ carrier sucks
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Unread 03-12-2010, 12:20 PM   #44
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Just to throw some more fuel on the fire (see what I did there? ) I have my Nov 09 issue of JP Magazine where they did the programmer comparison. I've attempted to sneak over to the copier/scanner in my office to try and provide it here but I suck at getting it aligned properly. I'll keep trying when I have free time.

Anyways, looking at the chart provided, they managed to average an improvement of 0.65 seconds for the 0-60 mph test and saw a 7.1% improvement of fuel economy. It doesn't say which "mode" they used to get these numbers from the Flashpaq, but they do cover the testing (106 mile commute and using the same gas pump with all testing done over three months and 7,000 miles). The main article can be found on their site but they didn't post the chart for some reason. Jeep Wrangler JK Tuner Shootout - Jp Magazine

Something else mentioned but I think should be noted is the fact that the Flashpaq does provide real time data on the display like TPS, IAT, timing, etc.
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Unread 03-12-2010, 12:21 PM   #45
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Off topic.... but partybarge you were right. This XRC rear bumper/ carrier sucks
Yep!!!!

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Just to throw some more fuel on the fire (see what I did there? )
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