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Unread 12-21-2009, 01:02 PM   #31
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Sure have, twice. Interestingly when we first installed the JKS Trackbar it was done so on the lift. Lowering it onto the ground put a lot of tension on the bar. During the next few days of driving the DW was worse than ever. Once we released the tension while on the ground the wobble got better. Unfortunately, that did not completely alleviate the issue. Hence all the other things I have tried. Balance, rebalance, road force balance, caster and tow adjustments. Rancho Steering stabilizer, tire pressure up, tire pressure down. Checked for slop on bushings, ball joints, etc.. It's like finding a needle in the haystack. Obviously there is something causing it since so many others have reported the same type of problem.

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Unread 12-21-2009, 01:10 PM   #32
premo
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well...really anything that moves up front is a possible culprit. check your steering knuckles if you havent already done so
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Unread 12-21-2009, 01:19 PM   #33
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I will keep checking. Just very frustrating. Too much time and money spent of something that should be easy to find. I would think with all the knowledge here on the forum the answer would jump out to someone smarter than I about it. It takes the fun out of owning a jeep when it doesn't perform as expected. Maybe the adjustments deepsky from FL is working through will lead us all to a better solution.
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Unread 12-21-2009, 01:29 PM   #34
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i have been following this thread and almost think it should become a sticky because of the real world problem solving going on.

One the things that was mentioned and subsequently ignored is the weight issue. I started with a very slight shimmy that quicky went away with a purejeep front bumper with a light bar and a winch, probably around 225 lbs along with a heavy (35"toyo) tire on an 18" rim. All i am suggesting is adding experimental weight to the front is a cheap and easy test.

Regardless the outcome of the op's problem this thread will be good information, good luck.
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List of stock parts that have been eviscerated.

power steering pump, tie rod, front left knuckle, horn, weld on rear track bar, rear track bar bracket, both rear fenders, front passenger fender, punctured spare tire, rear bar pins, steering stabilizer shock, front drivers side shock, spare tire carrier.
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Unread 12-21-2009, 01:40 PM   #35
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Is it just me or is it insane that a vehicle is so sensitive to every little thing?

I have never owned a vehicle that needed to have perfectly balanced tires, perfect bushings, perfect alignment and the exact right amount of weight in it to keep it from falling apart.

I am really getting sick of Jeep ownership. I didn't pay 24K for a vehicle to feel like its twenty years old.

I have lowered/raised tire pressure, aligned, rotated, balanced, replaced steering components with beefier aftermarket ones, welded washers to wallowed out holes, torqued the hole suspension, tried various track bars. tried different shocks, replaced steering box, replaced ball joints and got a beefier stabilizer. Sometimes its been better and sometimes its been worse but the steering has never been how it should be, since it was stock.

I have never gotten full blown death wobble but I sure have gotten vibes that feel close to it.

Another note... sometimes it feels better with more weight or a full tank of gas and other times it felt better with an empty tank. I have also tried removing my heavy front bumper to avail.

I thought maybe that would help.

At this point Im just about to give up.

If it goes to full blown DW ever, its getting traded in.
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Unread 12-21-2009, 01:45 PM   #36
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The DW comes when hitting a bump around 30-35 MPH on pavement. And as stated in someone elses post, it usually happens when one side hits the bump. The oscillation issue makes sense to me but not sure how to fix it. Many other vehicles have oversize tires and lifts without this issue. At least without this issue after a few tweaks. The JK seems to have something unique about it. Maybe I will try weight on the front and see what happens. Nothing else seems to be working. If becoming as sticky gets the attention it needs to find a solution then stick away (whatever that actually means).
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Unread 12-21-2009, 01:51 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCBob View Post
I will keep checking. Just very frustrating. Too much time and money spent of something that should be easy to find. I would think with all the knowledge here on the forum the answer would jump out to someone smarter than I about it. It takes the fun out of owning a jeep when it doesn't perform as expected. Maybe the adjustments deepsky from FL is working through will lead us all to a better solution.
Did you ever tried to swap your wheels and tires with stock wheels and tires (from a fellow Jeeper friend) with the same suspension set up.. That will tell whether the "oscillations" are generated by the wheel and tire config or not..

You have changed the stock off set from 44mm plus to a 12mm negative or a 56 mm change.. This for sure has an effect on the pneumatic trail and scrub radius (which became positive in your case)..Too much caster will increase this pneumatic trail arm as well.....(see my previous post)

Keep in mind oscillation are generated by an initial bump which created a inward torque (strength is defined by the pneumatic trail and scrub radius lever) this can set off the oscillation with a certain frequency. The latter can be dampened/stabilized by the SS.. However there is indeed a limit what the SS can and will do.. Too much or aggressive frequency might come close to the natural frequency of all suspension related components (spring rate, shock tuning, engine mount bumpers etc..) here you will for sure have DW..

The above is valid under the assumption that all your suspension components are technically sound, no excessive wear and properly clamped (read torque) and tires are dynamically balanced.

Just my humble "reflection"...
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Unread 12-21-2009, 02:07 PM   #38
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WOW that is certainly technical. I still have the orginal sahara tires with less than 200 miles on them sitting in the garage. I can change them out and give it a shot. What is dynamically balanced? Is that the same as Road Force Balanced? Also should I decrease my caster settings? Not like I can anyway, I have to take it to another mechanic who balanced them the first time.
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Unread 12-21-2009, 02:22 PM   #39
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OK, so this is weird.

As some of you already know one of the adjusters on my HD tie rod broke so there was nothing to stop the tie rod from changing length. My shimmy was BAD at the time. One night I almost went into REAL DW going over the bridge I take going home from work. Luckily a combination of having the dual steering stabil. and having enough room to brake and slow down quickly saved me.

Fast forward a week. My replacement tie rod comes in and I get it installed and set my toe. Shimmy is MUCH better but still worse than before the tie rod break.

Fast forward a week. I go get my tires rotated and "balanced". I notice a steering wheel wobble specifically between 30-34MPH. I figure the tires moved to the front are a little out of balance. Shimmy the same.

Later that week I decide to finally check my trackbar. Was torqued down to 125 ft/lbs. For S & Gs I decide to look at the body side mount. Pop off the TB and fit the bolt through. Slight wallow, MAYBE .2-.3mm gap on back side, fine on the front. I bolt it back up 125 ft/lbs and drive for a few days w/o any difference.

Here's where it gets weird. Starting last weekend the steering wheel wobble from the tires being out of balance stopped AND there has been NO SHIMMY whatsoever. Right now things are great, I have no shimmy, no wobble, steering feels great....I don't understand it :/




**edit** The only other thing I did during this span of time was to air down my tires from 29 to 24 PSI, but I did this around the time I installed my new tie rod.
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Unread 12-21-2009, 02:27 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCBob View Post
WOW that is certainly technical. I still have the orginal sahara tires with less than 200 miles on them sitting in the garage. I can change them out and give it a shot. What is dynamically balanced? Is that the same as Road Force Balanced? Also should I decrease my caster settings? Not like I can anyway, I have to take it to another mechanic who balanced them the first time.
Road Force Balance simulates more the real road condition..that's really the best..My gut feeling tells me that your caster is too high..I was aiming for the min of the spec..Larger tires are already giving you more forward SAI projection (increased pneumatic trail/scrub lever) over stock set up..
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Unread 12-21-2009, 02:30 PM   #41
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Holy smokes that is not helping me!!! Although I am very glad to hear you may have resolved your issue. Unfortunately I DONT KNOW HOW OR WHY!
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Unread 12-21-2009, 02:31 PM   #42
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last post for DEEPSKY
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Unread 12-21-2009, 02:32 PM   #43
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Okay so lower caster a little may also help.
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Unread 12-21-2009, 02:43 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USAntigoon View Post
Road Force Balance simulates more the real road condition..that's really the best..My gut feeling tells me that your caster is too high..I was aiming for the min of the spec..Larger tires are already giving you more forward SAI projection (increased pneumatic trail/scrub lever) over stock set up..
Does caster vary from application to application? From personal experience my shimmy completely disappeared so much so that I was driving w/o ANY steering stabilizer when I had my caster adjusted from 3.4 to 4.7. That lasted until I went wheeling for a weekend and drove home w/o my SS. A few days later (when I suspect my tie rod broke) I had to put my dual SS back on to prevent bad shimmy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OCBob View Post
Holy smokes that is not helping me!!! Although I am very glad to hear you may have resolved your issue. Unfortunately I DONT KNOW HOW OR WHY!
I know that was totally unhelpful, sorry! Don't feel bad though, my issue hasn't been resolved. Every time it goes away it ends up coming back.
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Unread 12-21-2009, 02:46 PM   #45
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I was hoping at least one of us had it fixed. I will keep my fingers crossed for your sake. Do you adjust your caster yourself or do you have to take it to someone to do it?
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