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Unread 12-07-2009, 03:44 PM   #1
OCBob
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Steering Stabilizer

Good evening all. I added a Rancho Steering Stabilizer at the beginning of the summer along with many other mods (see below) After many tweaks I still occassionally have the shimmy. Does anyone think dual steering stabilizers would help the problem? If so, what kind are you happy with. THX

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Unread 12-07-2009, 03:52 PM   #2
ncb
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Adding another stabilizer would be a patch. Find out where the shimmy is coming from. Have you had the tires balanced?
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Unread 12-07-2009, 04:05 PM   #3
OCBob
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I have been working the issue. Tire pressure changes, Caster Changes, Toe Changes, relieving pressure on track bar, rebalanced, etc.. The shimmy is a lot better now, just didn't know if a dual stabilizer would knock the rest of the problem out or not.
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Unread 12-07-2009, 05:00 PM   #4
Hellbound13
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What do you mean by shimmy? Is there steering wheel visually moving back and forth?

Also what do you mean by relieving pressure on the track bar?

When does the shimmy happen?
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Unread 12-07-2009, 05:10 PM   #5
DeepSky
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It might help, but it might not. I've been battling the shimmy for over a year now and the thing that made the biggest difference was upgrading the stock tie rod with the Poly Performance HD one. After I installed that my shimmy was %100 gone for a month or two and now its back.

What I've tried so far:
  • Balanced my tires
  • Set my toe-in to 1/8".
  • Replaced factory trackbar & relocation bracket with JKS adjustable trackbar.
  • Re-Balanced my tires.
  • Used cam bolts to set my caster to 4.6*.
  • Replaced my Skyjacker HD SS with the Rough Country dual SS (without this I would have drove the Jeep off a cliff a long time ago).
  • Re-balanced my tires.
  • Replaced factory tie rod with Poly Performance HD tie rod.
  • Other minor things like trying different tire pressures.

I was still shimmy free until I had my tires rotated and then shortly after one of the adjuster clamps on my tie rod broke (defect) a week or two ago. Poly Perf. sent me a replacement and it helped but I'm still getting the shimmy most noticeably after hitting bumps in the road where only one side of the Jeep makes contact.

Very frustrating to say the least. My next attempt in troubleshooting will be replacing ball joints, whether they are worn or not.
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Unread 12-07-2009, 05:20 PM   #6
Hellbound13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepSky View Post
It might help, but it might not. I've been battling the shimmy for over a year now and the thing that made the biggest difference was upgrading the stock tie rod with the Poly Performance HD one. After I installed that my shimmy was %100 gone for a month or two and now its back.

What I've tried so far:
  • Balanced my tires
  • Set my toe-in to 1/8".
  • Replaced factory trackbar & relocation bracket with JKS adjustable trackbar.
  • Re-Balanced my tires.
  • Used cam bolts to set my caster to 4.6*.
  • Replaced my Skyjacker HD SS with the Rough Country dual SS (without this I would have drove the Jeep off a cliff a long time ago).
  • Re-balanced my tires.
  • Replaced factory tie rod with Poly Performance HD tie rod.
  • Other minor things like trying different tire pressures.

I was still shimmy free until I had my tires rotated and then shortly after one of the adjuster clamps on my tie rod broke (defect) a week or two ago. Poly Perf. sent me a replacement and it helped but I'm still getting the shimmy most noticeably after hitting bumps in the road where only one side of the Jeep makes contact.

Very frustrating to say the least. My next attempt in troubleshooting will be replacing ball joints, whether they are worn or not.
Sounds like me. Is it me or are the front end on these things a constant uphill battle?
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Unread 12-07-2009, 05:39 PM   #7
Imped
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Check the track bar axle bushing. You should have virtually NO movement between the bushing, mount, and bolt. ANY slight amount of play can result in surprisingly large wobbles. This is the main bushing in controlling the oscillations that can lead to DW.
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Unread 12-07-2009, 05:39 PM   #8
USAntigoon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepSky View Post
It might help, but it might not. I've been battling the shimmy for over a year now and the thing that made the biggest difference was upgrading the stock tie rod with the Poly Performance HD one. After I installed that my shimmy was %100 gone for a month or two and now its back.

What I've tried so far:
  • Balanced my tires
  • Set my toe-in to 1/8".
  • Replaced factory trackbar & relocation bracket with JKS adjustable trackbar.
  • Re-Balanced my tires.
  • Used cam bolts to set my caster to 4.6*.
  • Replaced my Skyjacker HD SS with the Rough Country dual SS (without this I would have drove the Jeep off a cliff a long time ago).
  • Re-balanced my tires.
  • Replaced factory tie rod with Poly Performance HD tie rod.
  • Other minor things like trying different tire pressures.

I was still shimmy free until I had my tires rotated and then shortly after one of the adjuster clamps on my tie rod broke (defect) a week or two ago. Poly Perf. sent me a replacement and it helped but I'm still getting the shimmy most noticeably after hitting bumps in the road where only one side of the Jeep makes contact.

Very frustrating to say the least. My next attempt in troubleshooting will be replacing ball joints, whether they are worn or not.


Keep in mind a few things..With 35" tires you don't need that much caster..
This high + 4.6 degr caster with the very big pneumatic trail (wide tires) will give you a very aggressive larger scrub radius hence creating a larger lever once an oscillation starts (inherent to solid axle design)
A good steering damper is supposed to stop this, but there is a limit.. My suggestion, reduce the caster... Keep in mind these larger tires will give you enough "groove feel" even with a smaller caster.. I was going to aim for 3.5 degr. Then I was also going to look into less TOE-IN.. The gyroscopic effect of these big tires are to be understood as well.. therefore some Jeepers are even running a "zero" or slight TOE-OUT..
Just my humble opinion..

p.s All the "improvements" you did, seem to be of a temporary nature... therefore my suggestion to look into the caster and TOE settings..
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Unread 12-07-2009, 05:45 PM   #9
Hellbound13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imped4now View Post
Check the track bar axle bushing. You should have virtually NO movement between the bushing, mount, and bolt. ANY slight amount of play can result in surprisingly large wobbles. This is the main bushing in controlling the oscillations that can lead to DW.
I dont think its that in my case. The hole was wallowed but welded washers a long time ago and they have still not egged out. Also I have tried various track bars and I am now running a Currie with a Johnny Joint that is less than six months old.

I wish I could find a 4x4 shop to play with my alignment. All the alignment shops want to do is put it to factory specs and they don't even know about adj. lower control arms.
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Unread 12-07-2009, 07:05 PM   #10
DeepSky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellbound13 View Post
Sounds like me. Is it me or are the front end on these things a constant uphill battle?
Seems that way for me at least :/ Ever since the trackbar mount broke I can't seem to win.




Quote:
Originally Posted by USAntigoon View Post
p.s All the "improvements" you did, seem to be of a temporary nature... therefore my suggestion to look into the caster and TOE settings..
My caster measured 3.4* prior to adjusting it with the cam bolts. At 3.4* my Jeep wandered, pulled to the left, and the shimmy was worse.

When I first looked into it I had no real toe-in or out, the wheels were pretty much parallel to each other. When I toe'd-in 1/8" my front end felt much tighter and the shimmy was reduced. I haven't tried toe-ing out yet, although I might give it a shot this weekend.
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Last edited by DeepSky; 12-07-2009 at 07:22 PM..
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Unread 12-07-2009, 07:06 PM   #11
DeepSky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imped4now View Post
Check the track bar axle bushing. You should have virtually NO movement between the bushing, mount, and bolt. ANY slight amount of play can result in surprisingly large wobbles. This is the main bushing in controlling the oscillations that can lead to DW.
I've done this quite a few times and have never found any play. I have the bolt torqued to 120 ft/lbs, would it hurt to torque it down any tighter?
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Unread 12-07-2009, 07:44 PM   #12
thebobjeep
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Quote:
whether they are worn or not.
Which ball joints are you planning on going with, have you considered a zerks, or a modified grease-able? Mine are wearing, and the driver side needs replacing soon. I refuse to go back to stock.

Quote:
Seems that way for me at least :/ Ever since the trackbar mount broke I can't seem to win.
Sorry to hear that. I've been following many people's builds here and the builds I like the most seem to be falling apart. I've cured my shimming, but the steering sucks.

As to the OP, there's are tons of great threads concerning the dual stabilizers, research persuaded me against it, luckily for me there are tons of other places to put the coin....
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Unread 12-07-2009, 07:47 PM   #13
thebobjeep
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Quote:
I've done this quite a few times and have never found any play.
Have you tried removing the bolts and looking for a wallowed out hole? Mine seemed perfect when tested, when the bolts were loosened, you could see the movement and it was obvious when removed. Once this was resolved, my shimmy went away.
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Unread 12-07-2009, 07:59 PM   #14
Hellbound13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebobjeep View Post
Which ball joints are you planning on going with, have you considered a zerks, or a modified grease-able? Mine are wearing, and the driver side needs replacing soon. I refuse to go back to stock.



Sorry to hear that. I've been following many people's builds here and the builds I like the most seem to be falling apart. I've cured my shimming, but the steering sucks.

As to the OP, there's are tons of great threads concerning the dual stabilizers, research persuaded me against it, luckily for me there are tons of other places to put the coin....
You said the steering sucks but you have no shimmy. What is wrong with your steering?
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Unread 12-07-2009, 10:18 PM   #15
thebobjeep
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On heavily graded roads (highways) and pot holes the steering wants to turn with the grade. Gets tiring after a while, as my commute is just off poorly constructed highways with a large amounts of holes and bumps. Most highways it's fine, but the back woods highways just make the drive get old quickly. This bothers me more than the shimmy ever did (and my shimmy in the end would turn to DW even at 30mph while exiting the highway (due to my axle arm bracket being bent back) With the shimmy you knew what was about to come next. Now it feels as if I hit just the right pothole it's going to throw me into the railing. I had mild bump steer before, but this only happens on the big holes, and there are a lot of big holes. When trying to resolve the problem, one shop - and one PM - told me to add a heavier front bumper, and together with beefier tires it would solve my problem. But I'm dead set on getting my ride perfect before I invest in larger tires and new gears- not to mention I'll be too broke to adjust anything after that.

I'm pretty sure I mildly damaged my tie rod, so I was planning on a poly rod and hi steer kit.
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