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Unread 09-01-2013, 07:46 AM   #16
2003Sahara
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panthermark

There is....

Have you tried a jumper? It take 10 seconds to try.

What we don't know is why it works for some but not for others.

I used to have mine jumped, but I pulled my jumper...mostly because I'm worried that I'll somehow hit my rear windshield wiper fluid switch and soak the back of my Jeep.
Ok now you have my interest I'm going to have to try this one. Who'd of thunk it. Lol. After watching the video and the way is cuts out and comes back on it has to be doing something.

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Unread 09-01-2013, 07:57 AM   #17
13blackjk
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I didn't even realize the sound difference until that video what kind of connector is that so i can go purchase it and a wire.
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Unread 09-01-2013, 08:21 AM   #18
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This has been a well known fact since 2007. People tend to crank up the tunes when the top is off and you are on the beach or camp. The original idea was to prevent blowing out speakers and subwoofers then trying to claim warranty. There were also a number of guys experimenting with swapping out the factory amp for the Dodge Nitro amp. Plug and play, Supposed more power, better sound.
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Unread 09-01-2013, 08:25 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 13blackjk
I didn't even realize the sound difference until that video what kind of connector is that so i can go purchase it and a wire.
5 amp mini fuse, twist the tips to fit in the socket or
Make a small wire jumper. Jump the purple to heavy black.
You can search for other threads. For pics of using a mini fuse.
image-3622687332.jpg

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Unread 09-01-2013, 08:53 AM   #20
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If you measure both current and amplitude of the signal going into the rear boom box you can clearly see the difference between plugged and unplugged. Volume and sound quality are two different things. When enclosed the sound waves have a surface to contain them and sound more full as waves are bounced back into the enclosed cabin. At that same volume without a top - the sound "falls apart" as it does not have anything to direct it to the ears - it goes outward infinitely. Low freqs do not travel as fast as high freqs so the convergence of the two is at a different point.

so the volume gets limited with the top off to maintain the "richness" - by adjusting GAIN - not volume... to our ears a drop in gain will sound like a drop in volume. Jumping makes it louder, but at a lower quality (in comparison to top on) - that quality is what the engineers want to impress on you - not the volume...
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Unread 09-01-2013, 01:59 PM   #21
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Thank you jwmbishop, I was wondering why they would have done that. Now, if I am finding it lacking with my hardtop off and I don't want to degrade the marginal sound quality any further, will getting a better amp resolve the issue or do we need to change out speakers/sub as well?
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Unread 09-02-2013, 04:48 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ancientspear
Thank you jwmbishop, I was wondering why they would have done that. Now, if I am finding it lacking with my hardtop off and I don't want to degrade the marginal sound quality any further, will getting a better amp resolve the issue or do we need to change out speakers/sub as well?
Now you find yourself exactly where I am
I've ordered new 6.5 speakers, but I'm thinking that's only improving the underlying cause. I want to eliminate whatever is applying the limiter.
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Unread 09-02-2013, 07:41 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeBIII

Now you find yourself exactly where I am
I've ordered new 6.5 speakers, but I'm thinking that's only improving the underlying cause. I want to eliminate whatever is applying the limiter.
To eliminate the problem you have to bypass all the factory wiring and replace the head unit. Patching new equipment into the existing wiring will still run stereo controls through the computer.
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Unread 09-02-2013, 07:53 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTPhoto

To eliminate the problem you have to bypass all the factory wiring and replace the head unit. Patching new equipment into the existing wiring will still run stereo controls through the computer.
I agree that's one way to do it (and perhaps the most simple method but I want to keep my 730n).... there are hardtop-only wranglers out there which perform differently with I'm assuming to be the same head unit and amp. I would like to understand how to configure a soft top wrangler to do the same. I can't think that Jeep creates 3 favors of head units and amps for 1. Hardtops only, 2. Dual top (where the system functions differently depending on if the hard top is installed), 3. Soft tops only. There has to be programming and/or wiring that manipulates this.

Gotta be an engineer + jeep enthusiast out there with the ability to figure this out.
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Unread 09-02-2013, 08:05 AM   #25
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My understanding is 1 head unit for all. The hardtop wiring harness is what controls whether or not the sound changes. Softtop only simply do not have that harness. Install the hardtop harness and you can jump it, just like the factory hardtop units. It works.
There should be a way to trace the wiring to find the feedback wire in the softtop harness but to date I am unaware of anyone finding this solution whether software or rewiring other then installing the factory HT harness.
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Unread 09-02-2013, 08:30 AM   #26
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It seems like one of these would fix the problem permanently...just drill/cut out the blocking plate on one side so both wires can run through.

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Unread 09-02-2013, 08:32 AM   #27
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Does that fancy lockpick thingy do anything to undermine/eliminate this feature/limitation?

Godholio, wouldn't that still leave us with the problem of spraying our cargo area with wiper fluid whenever someone hits the switch? Stopping an annoyance with a real defect is not a fix, I would rather duct tape my windshield to fix a crack than do the jumper thing if it means I can pump wiper fluid in the cargo area.

I wish I wasn't across the pacific from my JK right now. Has anyone that has encountered this problem tired plugging in and unplugging that rear wiper/defrost for differences with the speed volume leveling feature on and again when it's off? I would laugh if all this time it was caused by that deck feature.
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Unread 09-02-2013, 08:40 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godholio
It seems like one of these would fix the problem permanently...just drill/cut out the blocking plate on one side so both wires can run through.
It may or may not be a permanent fix. It may be OK when the hardtop is NOT plugged in but who knows what kind of weird sh** may happen when you plug it in.
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Unread 09-02-2013, 09:06 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ancientspear View Post
Thank you jwmbishop, I was wondering why they would have done that. Now, if I am finding it lacking with my hardtop off and I don't want to degrade the marginal sound quality any further, will getting a better amp resolve the issue or do we need to change out speakers/sub as well?
I would say that depends on how much of an audiophile you are. Some people only need a radio - some need 10K in radio, amp and speakers.

When I was in my 20s with good ears and a well rounded taste in music I would have been tempted to replaced the entire unit (radio amp and speakers) to keep sound quality high. But as the wrangler is versatile (top and door option) the "stage" changes drastically. Imagine Carnegie hall or the Sydney opera (both being places where the spoken and unamplified human voice reaches all seats pretty close to equally) with a roll open roof. The acoustics change so much the object of good clear sound throughout the environment becomes a fast moving target and may even be so drastic as to be un-tunable with gain...

At the US Festival back in the 80s they set up in a natural amphitheater (basically a bowl valley) that was so far across in order to get the high and low freqs to converge at the center and at the same time (time and place convergence of waves makes a huge impact on sound quality - which is basically what modern stereos do with speaker placement and DSP that lets you select between all, front only, rear only, driver only etc for sound quality) Steve Wozniac designed a sound board that would delay the the output enough that when the highs were sent out of the driver (they travel faster) the lows had already been sent! enough so that they would get there (center of amphitheater) at the same time as the highs. The end result was you could see the drumstick strike a full second before the drivers fired and the entire performance looked like bad lipsyncing (but best outdoor concert sound I have ever experienced)!

I can set DSP to front only in my Caddy, go sit in the back seat and its just not as "loud" or defined as in the drivers seat (and my teenager with good ears actually said it sounded like crap)! Set to all its sounds equal in any seat.

Link to simplified explanation of resonance (speed of sound waves). Note in the equation v = 4f (H + 0.4D) Velocity equals 4Xfrequency times H + 0.4D. Note that as freq (f) is multiplied by four - freq is the LARGEST piece of the puzzle. That's why the wrangler unit sounds different - the freqs are being modified via gain! Not the volume! The more sensitive you7re ears are to this the more noticeable it is. Thats why the jumper wire "works for some" but not others. Its working - but the individual is not experiencing the same physical eardrum response as the the next guy.

Having lost my hearing and wearing hearing aids - mis convergence of multiple freqs becomes noticeably "blurred" to me - ie more volume equals less understanding of subtle vocabulary sounds (like did he say cat, bat, rat or hat etc) when watching TV. Can easily fill in one word by the sentence context - but miss two or three in the sentence and the whole sentence makes NO SENSE. If I play Zepplin on my Jeep stereo I "hear" every word note and sound - simply because I KNOW it so well. But play a new song I have never heard before and I cant understand a single lyric! But in my Caddy (12 speaker bose, 1000 watt) I can catch about 70% of even a totally unfamiliar song. With the roof of the Caddy off I would probably not catch any as the sound goes away from me - not bounced back.

If modifying a wrangler I would first focus on the speakers and their direction. Top off you want them to fire directly at you from in front (the dash speakers could be angled upward more rather than down to the floor - I'm sure our knees enjoy Deep Purple but its our EARS that NEED it - lol) - not down only to be blown away by the wind and momentum (doppler effect condenses the waves ahead of and expands the waves behind a moving object) as the overheads do. Back seats really benefit from the overheads. Top on that would be uncomfortable and not sound as rich. A high end stereo shop can really do a lot here as they have the equipment to measure (without regard to individual ear sensitivity - sensitive to both volume AND direction). But overall I think trying to get quality sound out of a MOVING open air vehicle is chasing rabbits down tea holes. Wind, doppler, other sounds all are working against the goal. Just make it loud enough to hear at 60 and enjoy quality when you arrive at the top of the mountain and have lunch, dinner, beer etc!!!
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Unread 09-02-2013, 09:22 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godholio View Post
It seems like one of these would fix the problem permanently...just drill/cut out the blocking plate on one side so both wires can run through.

You sir should be shot.

These ARE simple and they simply destroy the wire over time. I hate em (I bought a trailer once BRAND NEW and it had 15 of them in various places - within a year my lights were randomly going out and back on, blowing fuses etc). Even at their best - with stranded wire they only contact about 70% of the strands! I will cut solder and splice long before I allow one of these monstrosities anywhere on a vehicle - the alum and the copper being unlike metals corrode and the corrosion chaffs the copper wire causing impedance, and electrolysis will widen the gap of the aluminum pierce tang over time loosening the connection further. Within a year you will have more resistance across the splice - not a big deal for lighting - but terrible on speaker wire (and CanBUS wire). They are only popular because A) they are cheap, B) easy to install with no additional tooling and C)people on average keep a vehicle five years and these will work for maybe seven so the average doesn't see the failure. I build to last at least 20.

the best solution is a deustch with one side jumpered and two wires on the other...
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