so I submarined my JK - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 30 Old 06-19-2017, 08:26 AM Thread Starter
darien99
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so I submarined my JK

On Sat I was doing a water crossing which ended up being a little too deep when I got caught in a rut. Water entered the cab to a level halfway up the speaker grill. I turned off the engine and was able to get winched out, but sat in the water about 5 minutes. Water drained out of the cab, pulled the spark plugs which were dry. There was a little water in the intake though, the air filter was wet, and a smidge in the throttle body. A lot (I'd guess a gallon or two) came back out the tailpipe as things drained out.

Cranked the engine over and it started, but transmission was stuck in limp mode (P R N D illuminated on dash) and engine light on. Started driving back out of the trail, got a quarter mile before stalling out. Got it started again, soldiered on, died a short bit later. Finally had someone pull me to the trail head (which was harrowing, for sure).

Popped the hood and there was some milkshake blowby out of the intake. Had to run to town and get some oil, air filter, and oil filter and drained about 2 gallons!! of milkshake out of the engine. Engine seemed to run fine at that point, although there was a (new) engine rattle at startup that lasts about a second. Seems like a small bit of oil came out of the rear main, but no noticeable leaks from that after changing the oil.

Ran in limp mode the 40 or so miles back to town. Trans temp held pretty steady at 170, engine temp pegged halfway or so on the gauge. The headlights freaked out for the first 10 minutes or so, turning on and off, hazards on and off, wiper occasionally turning itself on. Seemed to be better by the time I got back to town though.

So here's where I'm at. I know I need to change the trans fluid, differential oil, and engine oil again. I'm also planning on pulling all the interior electrical connectors and spraying them with wd40 / dialectric grease to hopefully solve some of these electrical gremlins. My major concern at this point is the transmission which will not come out of limp mode, despite resetting the battery a number of times. I know these are electronically controlled, and there can be a number of things that can stick it into limp mode, so where should I start? I'd guess with the transmission computer which I understand is under hood attached to the wiper fluid res?

Any and all suggestions are greatly appreciated. I am sure that this will eventually have to go to the dealer but I'd like to keep the costs as low as I can by doing what I can first.

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post #2 of 30 Old 06-19-2017, 09:34 AM
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i believe the trans controller is right of the steering wheel behind the dash just below the column? the one on the washer is the main Computer. but these are rather water tight. the TIPM not so much. There is shift control box too that is at the end of the shift stick itself.

Before you do much more i would put a scanner on it<<<<<<<<. The breather to the trans is up rather high on top of the mainfold(we are talking a 2012+ i am assuming, you dont say). I would think the trans is dry. Did you check the oil level on the trans? If its over filled(water). that would put it in limp, if that is why it is but you are guessing. with out pulling the codes.

You know the motor is flooded. The bad news is it most likely done. when swamped NEVER try to start it again. you MUST remove the oil. once the over filled oil and water is atomized it foams and nothing but wear happens after that. even just over filling the oil can do this. If the engine did hydro lock its done, if it did not then its just water contamination and wear from driving it.

The dealer will most likely just want to replace everything. depending on the codes but the engine i doubt they would even try to fix . This may be covered by your INS. If the place of swamping is a State, fed or county road/trail for sure. even if its not they still may. THey will total it though i would bet since flood damage tends to get expensive and hard to get all the bugs out.

to me it sounds like the TIPM got flooded, that controls all the electrical.

hard lesson here. NEVER cross water of unknown depth. walk it or wait for someone else to try and see if they make it. Any water of depth you really need a snorkel. Never go fast into water.
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post #3 of 30 Old 06-19-2017, 10:06 AM
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^^^ spot on.
The second time you started was twice as hard on it - the third twice again It was dying for a reason (likely oil PSi issue as well as water encroachment to electronics).

my wife and I were swept off the road in an H2 and into a creek by a flash flood - I KNOW I destroyed the engine - I intentionally headed towards high ground and romped it to get as close to shore and out of current as possible (still lacked about 50 feet in a 4' deep 30MPH current so the high water rescue folks got a wet run)- it was taching 2570 when the water went in the intake and stopped instantly... the next day after water subsided (and damn we almost made it - there were ruts where that truck was TRYING to grab dirt) and I dragged it home the electrical worked - but no crank as it was locked (and probably bent at least two rods). Insurance covered it as a non fault and my rates did not even go up...

(gee - I didn't think it was that deep - it was only waist high on the ducks... and they are only a foot and a half tall.)

J Wm Bishop EA, ASADE
The wagon should, of course, be as light as possible, but strength should not be sacrificed to lightness, for on any but the regularly traveled roads, the wagon will get many a
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post #4 of 30 Old 06-19-2017, 10:41 AM
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When you went submarine, was it like this?

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post #5 of 30 Old 06-19-2017, 12:25 PM Thread Starter
darien99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 222Doc View Post
i believe the trans controller is right of the steering wheel behind the dash just below the column? the one on the washer is the main Computer. but these are rather water tight. the TIPM not so much. There is shift control box too that is at the end of the shift stick itself.

You know the motor is flooded. The bad news is it most likely done. when swamped NEVER try to start it again. you MUST remove the oil. once the over filled oil and water is atomized it foams and nothing but wear happens after that. even just over filling the oil can do this. If the engine did hydro lock its done, if it did not then its just water contamination and wear from driving it.

The dealer will most likely just want to replace everything. depending on the codes but the engine i doubt they would even try to fix . This may be covered by your INS. If the place of swamping is a State, fed or county road/trail for sure. even if its not they still may. THey will total it though i would bet since flood damage tends to get expensive and hard to get all the bugs out.

to me it sounds like the TIPM got flooded, that controls all the electrical.
Thanks, that gives me a place to start looking. The TIPM was my guess as well, although I know that there are a number of electrical issues that can put the trans into limp mode. Can the TIPM be replaced with a used unit, or is it VIN locked requiring it to be flashed?

The engine seems to, so far, be fine. After changing the oil I was able to drive it back the 40 miles and it seems to be running alright. I do need to check the oil pressure though and I wouldn't be surprised if I develop a leak or two thanks to that added pressure on the seals.

Sound advice. I totally skipped checking the oil, a bonehead moment I'll attribute to dread and adrenaline. The trail is off of a FS road, so I'm not sure what the official insurance policy would be on it. The plan for now is to change all the fluids, pull the codes, and spray out the electrical connections with WD40 and apply dialectric grease before I take it in. Am I missing anything?
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post #6 of 30 Old 06-19-2017, 12:27 PM Thread Starter
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When you went submarine, was it like this?
I'd have to review the pictures, but I don't think the water was over the hood at any point. Damn close though.
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post #7 of 30 Old 06-19-2017, 12:35 PM
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Jks can ford rather deep water. If that Suz had no snorkel he as well would be DOW. dead on the water. just check you tube video's a plethora to purview of Jks running very deep water. Snorkels you mUST check too before you are out fording. just cover the opening if it runs you have a leak. If its starts to collapse the piping or softer parts its tight enough. since there will never be that much vacuum in the intake to do this.

The one main issues is engines do not run on water. Water is hard to compress. As well you need to raise every vent as high as you can.on mine the rear axle vent runs up into the tube it comes out where the wires come in to the tube right rear by the roll bar. My front i ran righto the top of the hood. i changed the trans vent from the top of the motor intake to the fire wall near the hood on the passenger side. The only reason i did this if the trans ever say puked oil it wont land on a hot engine. Many older Jks caught fire from that 2011 and older. Why jeep runs it there i will never understand and even AFTER they KNEW it was a bad idea.

doing the same thing over again and again expecting a different result is evidence of insanity.

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post #8 of 30 Old 06-19-2017, 01:13 PM
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Yes the TIPM is vin matched and requires some flash...

J Wm Bishop EA, ASADE
The wagon should, of course, be as light as possible, but strength should not be sacrificed to lightness, for on any but the regularly traveled roads, the wagon will get many a
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post #9 of 30 Old 06-19-2017, 01:14 PM
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hood deep is rather deep. People have hydro locked just going through 1' of water...to fast<<<<<<

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post #10 of 30 Old 06-20-2017, 02:52 PM Thread Starter
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So I'm working out of state, but will try to get to what I can this weekend. First priority is changing fluids, then cleaning the TIPM with some canned air and electrical cleaner.

Assuming that doesn't solve the issue, am I correct in reading that I should have a 5yr/100k powertrain warranty? I'd like to avoid making a claim, but if they tell me it's going to need an engine and trans replacement that may be the route to go. Reading through the warranty booklet they name 'misuse' as a cause for denying claims, so who knows.
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post #11 of 30 Old 06-20-2017, 03:02 PM
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I doubt you'll get it covered by warranty. This will certainly fall in the category of 'misuse' in the eyes of FCA. Better chance of insurance covering it.

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post #12 of 30 Old 06-20-2017, 03:45 PM
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I'm sure submerging your Jeep will void any warranty.

It would be different if a seal let go fording a shallow stream.

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post #13 of 30 Old 06-20-2017, 05:06 PM
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yea warranty wont cover damaged caused by driver error , especially when they swamp it(flood damage), jeeps is well known to look real hard at these things when they even suspect it. Not like you are the first to try and say its jeeps fault. No offense just saying they look real hard when its 10s of thousands in repairs. One thing to say have a issue like a defect and god knows jeeps have more than a few.

INS will cover this i would be almost assured, that is why you have INS. You know water kills/totals more jeeps than rock crawling by FAR and WIDE. Just the threads here, every year. year after year we see here enough to know and trust me of the many, few ever come to a forum. So many new jeepers just head out into the deep water, mud and think its a jeep. maybe more like the SS Minnow on a three hour tour..>snorkels can be more than a hood ornament< if you plant to play in water mud.

I dont think the TIPM is serviceable in any way. Taking it apart i think you have to "crack it open". what you see is just the top and the fusses/ relays. Again this jeep need a scan tool. just plug it into the OBD-2 port and read the codes FIRST<<<<. Wack a mole repairs are just a great way to waist money. You do know in the end this jeep may well be totaled. Or have unending electrical issues.

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post #14 of 30 Old 06-24-2017, 03:07 PM Thread Starter
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So I started working on it today. Pulled apart all the electronics I could get to inside the cab that I know were underwater, from the consul up to the HVAC controls. The console was a ***** to get out. Sprayed the connectors with electrical cleaner and followed with blowing it out with compressed air.

Removed the TIPM, sprayed the connectors and disassembled. Tore it down and spread between the sandwich boards, sprayed the fuses as well. I've got it all back together now, just have to put it back in the Jeep. I did notice that the speed fuses are discolored, I think I'm just going to replace those. Tomorrow reassemble, change fluids, pull codes and see what happens.




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post #15 of 30 Old 06-24-2017, 06:07 PM
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Do a complete transmission flush. Drop the transmission pan, change filter. Be sure to use Synthetic ATF-4 fluid. After filling to full, shut off engine. Disconnect transmission line hose by the radiator. Start engine to drain ATF-4 fluid coming out of tranny/torque converter -- drain a half gallon; shut off engine; put in new fluid. repeat the cycle until you drained 13 Qts, replenish replenish with new fluid.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f96/t...stall-1092006/

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