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From Rockcrawler? to Overlander

31K views 235 replies 22 participants last post by  ferninaz 
#1 ·
From Rockcrawler? to Overlander and back to Rockcrawler 07/01/2016

The idea is to make an overlander/rock crawler without sacrificing too much of either one.This is how I am sitting currently.



37" Cooper Discoverer STT's
3.5" MetalCloak Dual Rate Springs
Bilstein 5160 shocks
Synergy front tie rod, drag link
MetalCloak trackbar (front)
Synergy trackbar, sector shaft brace
Currie AntiRock sway bar, front
Stock rear sway bar and trackbar
Front G2 Core 44, ARB Locker
Rear Stock Dana 44, ARB locker
JCR front stubby with stinger, PIAA spots, Amazon LED light bar
XRC8 winch
sPOD
Smittybilt XRC flares and SRC rocker armor
aFe catback exhaust
RuggedRidge snorkel

I will be keeping the tires on the vehicle so I will be sacrificing some fuel range for clearance. A couple of reasons for keeping them, cost of a new set of tires is not in the budget and I really think my JKU performs better with them on than with 35s. I am geared at 4.88 and it feels fine on the highway and in the dirt.

I will not be making my vehicle any lower than it is so mounting things high is a concern. I like the ride although the front Anti Rock does make it feel a bit loose on uneven roads. The weight added from an overland trip will be significant enough to lower the vehicle and I believe the dual rates will handle that just fine.

I would prefer to keep the weight off the roof or roof rack so most of the storage will have to be inside the vehicle or to the rear where I can either do a hitch mount basket or tire mount. Removing the rear seat of the JKU should provide me with enough flat space to accomplish the task of keeping everything inside. My trips will not be more than 4 days long but I do believe that potable water and food may be a bit of an issue. Biggest space waster is my 37" spare which currently sits inside the rear storage area. The plan may be to build up a shelf system around the spare tire and put the tire on a sliding platform to bring it outside of the vehicle, similar to the tool boxes that you see in some trucks. That would give me a flat surface to work from above the tire which would lay flat basically on the floor of the Jeep.

We are lucky enough to have a JKU so hanging things from the sport bars is a definite possibility and will probably happen quite a bit. Backpacks for clothes and dry food storage can be hung with minimal issue inside the vehicle. It will look a little like a it's been thrown together but it already does I think.

Major considerations to having a small dog and making sure she has a secure place to sit while riding in the Jeep. Sacrifices will be made to accommodate her. Luckily my wife doesn't mind the outdoors and actually does all the photography for our Jeep and doesn't mind getting out to take pictures and ground guiding when she really has to.

My first objective will be to make my wife more comfortable up front. She has taken a beating in the last year and she is a trooper about riding in the front with doors off for short trips, but long trips are a no go. I am going to try doing some heated seats under the neoprene seat covers already in the Jeep. Hopefully they will heat up enough to be noticeable. If not they will come out and I will try something else.

I hope some of you can help me along the way and that maybe I can give you some ideas about what I have already done or what I will be doing in the future.
 
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#2 ·
Oh no your running 37s on a dana 30!???? Just joking. Thought id say something first before someone else did. :)

As for the spare. I wouldnt build around it. I would focus on putting outside the jeep. I know my 37 will not just slide out the back if it was laying on its side.....the door is too small, unless the sliding shelf it was on was higher than the door. If u wanna look at my build thread (one of the last pages) i made a shelf for my 37 to sit on (with the seats up). There would be alot of room with the seats down. The sport bar keeps it from coming forward and killing anyone in the event of a wreck

Sent from my GT-N7000 using JeepForum
 
#4 ·
Thank you for getting the stock Dana 30 thing out of the way. :highfive: I did forget to mention that I converted my tailgate to fold down and whatever exterior tire mount I get must be compatible with that. What I have been looking at is the Genright tire carrier that folds down towards the ground. Problem with that is it attaches to a bumper which I do not have but em working on some ideas. I am completely removing my rear seat, half of it is out already but I do like the idea of a high shelf. Thanks for your comments.
 
#3 ·
Really seems like getting the spare out of the interior would be a good thing.

I have a roof rack on my jeep commander and we carry light stuff up there. Mainly clothing and stuff and it doesn't seem to affect handling. I have had some heavier items up there and that was more noticeable but I agree, if you can keep it off the roof it is nice.
 
#6 ·
My problem with having the spare on the outside is I seem to smash it up against things when I am offroad. Plus it keeps the weight further towards the middle of the Jeep if it is inside. I know that I will probably have to sacrifice space for handling or handling for more space. Luckily no decisions need to be made today.
 
#7 ·
I will not be making my vehicle any lower than it is so mounting things high is a concern. I like the ride although the front Anti Rock does make it feel a bit loose on uneven roads. The weight added from an overland trip will be significant enough to lower the vehicle and I believe the dual rates will handle that just fine.
Do you have your rear track bar axle mount raised?

I'm running Antirocks front and rear with Metalcloak 2.5" 2 door coils and noticed a big improvement in handling when I raised just the rear axle mount. I would expect raising the front would also make a noticeable improvement in handling.

My trips will not be more than 4 days long but I do believe that potable water and food may be a bit of an issue.
Have you considered using the space under the Jeep?

Relocating the factory muffler opens up quite a bit of space especially when the factory sway bar is relocated with an Antirock in it's place. You could build something custom or go with a bolt in like Genright offers.

http://www.genright.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=WTR8500#.VLBd6_otHIU
 
#10 ·
Do you have your rear track bar axle mount raised?

I'm running Antirocks front and rear with Metalcloak 2.5" 2 door coils and noticed a big improvement in handling when I raised just the rear axle mount. I would expect raising the front would also make a noticeable improvement in handling.

Have you considered using the space under the Jeep?

Relocating the factory muffler opens up quite a bit of space especially when the factory sway bar is relocated with an Antirock in it's place. You could build something custom or go with a bolt in like Genright offers.

http://www.genright.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=WTR8500#.VLBd6_otHIU
My rear axle side trackbar mount has been raised to account for the lift although I do believe the rear anti rock in conjuction with the front would help. My factory muffler is removed and i have a high tuck afe on the driver side about at the passenger door. So basically the old muffler area is open for more storage or adding a tank. I do like the idea of the water tank back there.
 
#8 ·
#11 ·
I don't have much to offer other than to tell you that there is a great thread on Wrangler Forum about making Expedition and Overland modifications and well as an endless supply of information on Expedition Portal. Sorry for the outside forum discussions.

I really like your build and have followed it for quite some time. Personally, I am much more interested in overlanding than hard core rock crawling however I do prefer to the more rock crawler look. Currently I am running flat fenders with stubby bumpers but will hopefully be doing more expedition style modifications in the future.
 
#12 ·
I don't have much to offer other than to tell you that there is a great thread on Wrangler Forum about making Expedition and Overland modifications and well as an endless supply of information on Expedition Portal. Sorry for the outside forum discussions.

I really like your build and have followed it for quite some time. Personally, I am much more interested in overlanding than hard core rock crawling however I do prefer to the more rock crawler look. Currently I am running flat fenders with stubby bumpers but will hopefully be doing more expedition style modifications in the future.
I have been reading through that thread. Very well done and lots of good ideas.
I was talking to a couple buddies about the overlanding and I am concerned about fix it tickets in every state where they care about flares and bumpers. Anyone have any experience with out of state tickets for fender flares and lack of bumpers?
Last night I ended up putting in some ceramic seat heaters under my neoprene seat covers. Seems to work pretty darn good, my wife stayed warm today out on trail and that is really saying something. She was very happy about them and they will come in handy in the winters in the mountains. http://www.amazon.com/Wild-us-Unive...id=1420942228&sr=1-4&keywords=car+seat+heater
 
#19 ·
That is pretty much what I did with the seat heaters. Didn't see any reason to pull the fabric off the seats when I could just stick the heaters on the seat and recover with my seat covers. Simple and seems to work fine. For 60 bucks, can't be beat I don't think, well of course unless you got them cheaper.
 
#18 ·
Two points.
Research state reciprocity agreements - Colorado is not fully onboard (and there some areas such as insurance and registration) where reciprocity is not going to happen.

Second - I'm currently designing (and finishing interior) of mine as an overlander - specifically the chuck wagon. (hot cold running water, wet bar, fridge, freezer, grill and pantry). Unfortunately this means I also have to tent up top - or apart from until that phase is budgeted.

I like what your doing!
 
#20 ·
Do you have a build thread for the chuck wagon? How many people are you planning for during your trips?

I currently have a pop up shower/bathroom tent and a water bladder that uses solar to heat. The bladder is large enough for a couple of folks to shower but needs to be drained for storage. I have thought about the instant water heaters found in some homes under the kitchen sink. Small and do the job. Haven't done a ton of research yet though.

Which brings up the old dual battery or not question. I think the dual battery is a good idea but weight is a concern. My JKU needs to stay under 5000 lbs, so anything I add will basically have to replace something or be removable.

As I plan this change I realize I have bitten off a lot. Rather be wheeling than sitting on the couch though.
Pics from yesterday. Did over 40 miles on dirt roads, put it in 4wd for about 200 yards. It was a very laid back day, I needed it.
 

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#21 ·
No build thread - I'm so busy I can only squeeze in work at best 3-4 hr a week - in 30-45 minute increments... photography and documentation (I still diligently update my parts lists) fall off fast in task priority when doesn't have time...
The group I play with already has a mechanical rig with its backup rig (combined air and alternator for welder) and an extraction rig in the group. I watched them packing and setting up a few times and realized - their biggest struggle (and most time spent away from the beer cooler) is the cooking gear. I can fully kitchen equip in mine and they dont have to carry so much in stoves, lanterns, etc. I already modelled a new stove based on the CampChef - in all aluminum, and several led lighting features that use a plug in with my Jeep as the remote battery.
I can supply for anywhere from 10-20 people with two 40qt refers 3-5 days depending on time between replenishment at right around 200 lbs tare on the groceries - remember tare can put you over GRVW a bit - its not commercial so no one's checking! And as with any OTHER standard in weight - the engineering principal is stated rating should be no more than 80% of actual maximum engineered rating. SO 5600-5700 at departure is NOT too harsh! Just have to understand - the heavier you are the slower your crawl has to be - so as not to smash up the belly! Last trip I had two coolers and a ton of gear that will not be packed next time - the only increase I see on paper is about 200 lbs from there (4827 on the scales). THat leaves me well over 500 for the tent top and rack...
Others pack an extra gallon or two of "utility" water and some supplies - I will be the backbone of the kitchen, we trade off meal duties... I typically take breakfast as I am not much for sleeping late lol (about 5 hrs a nite)...
Weight IS a concern but if located correctly becomes a benefit more than a liability. I have a dual under the hood, and will be placing a marine 200aHr under the rear deck for the refers and inverter (it alone will power a refer @40 and a freezer at 20 for three days at average ambient of 75 degrees between recharges - and can be recharged in three hours of wheeling). but it weighs about 150 lbs. This will be on the floor (dried in), under deck in what was the rear left passenger footwell/seat area, 20 gal water bladder and marine pump in right footwell/seat area. Refers on deck level with rear cargo - placing all the weight well within the safe triangles at all the same angles it can see now (and best of all - mostly dried in - when doors are on anyway). All decking will be alumin brace (using the seat mount bosses) with steel deck and access covers. A dry bag in my baja rack will easily hold my personal gear while under the tonneau is the pantry and grill storage. This has all my weight down low and should handle very close to the same loaded or empty.
For hot water again going to the marine engineering - a heat exchanger with thermo control - can go as hot as the engine is running if not controlled. This gives steaming hot 165 deg water for coffee (drip, french press or cowboy), 140 for dishwashing or 100> for shower!
INstant heaters are a disappointment waiting to happen. I have em in several offices - they only work by slowing the flow - you have to use a puck to change temp (smaller puck opening less flow more temperature).
Total budget so far for decking, electrical, bladder, exchanger refers is right around $5,500 and 60 hrs, not counting tent (will run this year - if I can make (wife's health)- using my Ouachitas' - one each for me and co-driver, I don't take passengers).
 
#23 ·
I had decided some time ago to outboard and raise the lower shock mount on the front shocks. Of course it was more time consuming than I had thought it would be. It involved some grinding on the bracket, drilling out some holes and taking off the rotor. I got one side 3/4 of the way done before I got bored of being in the garage. Two more holes to drill out on the passenger side and it will be done and I canl start the driver side. Hopefully finishing on Tuesday evening. The lower shock mount is now about 1.5" higher and further outboard.
 

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#26 ·
The lower shock mount is now about 1.5" higher and further outboard.
I understand that rotating the lower mount 180 helps eliminate bind on the shock mount/bushing and out boarding the lower mount helps keep the shock body off the frame at droop.

What is the purpose of raising the lower mount 1.5"?
 
#25 ·
Can't afford a trailer for a couple years although that would be my first option. I have seen the rotopak window replacements and I do like that idea. May have to check those out again. Dont remember what they cost. No AEV bumper for me, they do catch a lot of rocks and I refuse although they are a really good solution.
 
#28 ·
.5" isn't too bad. I thought 1.5" was quite a bit of collapsed shock length to lose. .5" isn't a big deal if you have the extra stroke available at full bump though.

Do you see any clearance issues that would occur if the lower mount was lowered the .5"-1" instead of raised .5"?


I'm considering making my own lower mounts along with upper mounts. If there are no clearance issues when the mount is rotated and moved out, I'd rather maintain the lower shock mount height or lower it slightly to make room for a longer stroke shock. I want to pick up the additional down travel with an increased shock stroke rather than trading compression or shock stroke for droop. Upper mounts will be made first and then the lower after a shock/ shock length is determined. I'm hoping to make use of the Metalcloak coils free length while limiting bump stop to a minimum amount. Hopefully I can get enough room out of the upper mounts that I can go with the Nemesis and save some time.
 
#29 ·
.5" isn't too bad. I thought 1.5" was quite a bit of collapsed shock length to lose. .5" isn't a big deal if you have the extra stroke available at full bump though.

Do you see any clearance issues that would occur if the lower mount was lowered the .5"-1" instead of raised .5"?

I'm considering making my own lower mounts along with upper mounts. If there are no clearance issues when the mount is rotated and moved out, I'd rather maintain the lower shock mount height or lower it slightly to make room for a longer stroke shock. I want to pick up the additional down travel with an increased shock stroke rather than trading compression or shock stroke for droop. Upper mounts will be made first and then the lower after a shock/ shock length is determined. I'm hoping to make use of the Metalcloak coils free length while limiting bump stop to a minimum amount. Hopefully I can get enough room out of the upper mounts that I can go with the Nemesis and save some time.
I never fully compress my shocks when the axle travels up. I have to bumpstop some of the uptravel away because of the drag link flip and 37s. If anything, I could probably move the top shock mount down by at least an inch.

I guess if the stock shock mount was to be cut off and a new one .5-1" lower welded in its place there would be no clearance issues at all. Building a lower mount off the existing stock one that is lower and outboard of where it is now, seems like it would contact the stock mount.
 
#30 ·
A couple things I learned about the shock mount.

1. It is not funny to not notice that you are losing diff fluid because you pulled the axle because you had to drill out some holes and you are sagging the suspension so you can get the shock in the mount. I probably lost about a half a quart which means now I have to drain it all so that I can get what I actually need in there. I have found from experience filling it till it starts draining out the fill hole leads to it being all over the place after the fluid warms up a bit.
2. I think that I need to get a longer bolt and a metal washer to tie in the old mount better.

Overall, it looks good and seems to do what it promised.
 

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#32 ·
Very nice looking jeep! If you haven't already, support stuff like an on-board air compressor, welder and reasonably complete toolkit should be high on any overlander's list.

Anything that helps/improves reliability is good too; worry less about what what looks good and more about what lasts and/or works well in other words. That's the general philosophy anyway :wave:

I really like the pop-up tent hardtops that are available too but they are crazy-expensive.
 
#33 ·
Very nice looking jeep! If you haven't already, support stuff like an on-board air compressor, welder and reasonably complete toolkit should be high on any overlander's list.

Anything that helps/improves reliability is good too; worry less about what what looks good and more about what lasts and/or works well in other words. That's the general philosophy anyway :wave:

I really like the pop-up tent hardtops that are available too but they are crazy-expensive.
Thank you for the comment about the nice looking Jeep. I have OBA and my toolkit is pretty good. I actually may have a little too many tools and really need to build a JK specific kit. I will probably not be putting a welder in the Jeep, at least not anytime soon. When I finally do get an off road trailer it will go in there, but that is a couple years from now.

I will not be using a RTT, it is out of the budget for now, so I will continue to sleep in a tent on the ground. Thanks for your comments, they are appreciated.
 
#35 ·
Well, it is decided. I will be getting a swing out tire carrier. I have picked one out that best fits my needs for my budget. The swing out will save me from having to deal with the 37" tire in the rear storage area and allow for two Rotopax which come with it. The biggest limitation with the tire carrier is it will only fit up to 37" tires. I guess that is kind of a blessing though since it will not allow me to purchase 40s. If I do someday get 40s the Jeep will no longer be an overlander/rockcrawler so I guess it won't make a difference.
http://orfab.com/details.php?Applic...WING AWAY TIRE/ROTOPAX CAN CARRIER&Active=Yes
 
#37 ·
For multiple reasons. Not in any particular order

1. Price (my budget says I need to look at inexpensive options_
2. Free stuff 2 rotopax and mounts for them and a hilift mount are included
3. The tire is on the outside of the carrier which means that when I am rock crawling for the day I can take the tire off and put it inside the Jeep and still have a barrier between the rotopax and the rocks. I also believe that this one is lighter than the genright or psc because it uses less material. I am not 100% sure of that.
4. It comes painted
5. I do not have to buy rear quarter armor like I would have to with the genright
6. Ease of installation, looks like there is no welding involved and very little drilling.
 
#38 ·
Thanks, I have liked that option for the rotopax as I have been wanting to be able to carry some extra fuel but I worry about the extra length it adds. I am tight in the garage already and not positive I will fit if I do the orfab with the extra length it adds.
 
#40 ·
It was a good day yesterday off road. A couple of issues came up with the changes I made since the last time I went off road. The Nemesis kit that moved my shocks made the shock reservoirs make contact with the tire. I knew it could happen so I will have to figure out another way to mount the reservoirs. No worries. My winch may not be up to the task although I was able to pull a buddy up a hill over some good size boulders it was really working hard. A new winch with a little more power may have to go on the list. The Smitty flares continue to amaze, I was completely on them in the last picture and the did not break. Not to bad.


 
#43 ·
It might take about 100 miles or so before you notice a bigger difference.

Nice upgrade.
Put about 40 miles on it after the new brakes, no weird noises or anything. So far so good. They are the rear though, so its hard to judge how much better they perform. I will be doing the fronts shortly, that will be a better test of the system I think.
 
#44 ·
I went ahead and ordered the Metalcloak rear shock relocation brackets. They relocate the lower shock mount a little higher adding some ground clearance. Hopefully they come in the next couple weeks. We will see what raising the lower shock mount breaks. This week I need to focus on getting rid of some squeaks and do some grinding to better clearance my C-Gussets. They make contact with my springs and it has driven me crazy but I have been to lazy to fix it. I really don't feel like taking apart the entire front suspension to grind on them so I am trying to figure out how to get around doing that.
 
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