Replacing tappets and valves - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 13 Old 08-15-2017, 04:46 PM Thread Starter
Amhigh348
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Replacing tappets and valves

I have had to replace the tappets and valves twice on my 2016 Willys and this second time they are replacing the camshaft. Has anyone had this issue before?

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post #2 of 13 Old 08-16-2017, 10:02 AM
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I have had to replace the tappets and valves twice on my 2016 Willys and this second time they are replacing the camshaft. Has anyone had this issue before?
Hi Amhigh348,

Has your dealership given you any additional indication as to any underlying reasons why these parts have needed to be replaced multiple times?

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post #3 of 13 Old 08-16-2017, 12:05 PM
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tappets and AND valves (or did you mean maybe valve followers)?
Tappet failures are oil flow/control failures.
valve failures are MUCH rarer and usually mechanical failure - and most warranty work will replace the head if the valve/guide/seat has failed (guide/seat work makes the fix just as expensive as an off the shelf head assembly).

If all they replaced was the tappets and followers they fed the injured angry cam (think grizzly bear) fresh meat... so the second time was simply them loosing that gamble I would not take!

ANY follower abnormal wear gets a new cam in any work I do (but yea they are bound by warranty which is usually "the least possible" first) - in the 3.6 the tappet is stationary and the follower rides the cam and is slightly harder than the cam lobe so by the time you've eaten a follower the lobe isn't true any more either... no matter how good it looks - followers only is just buying some time! (same applies to push rod engines and lifter wear)
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post #4 of 13 Old 08-17-2017, 11:17 AM Thread Starter
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They have not. The first replacement was done at a Jeep dealer. The second was at a Chrysler dealer and neither gave any king of indication. When I picked it up there was still a ticking noise so I turned it back in and said that there was still some issue somewhere that needs fixed.
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post #5 of 13 Old 08-17-2017, 11:26 AM Thread Starter
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Here is what was done at the first dealership: removed right/left valve cover to check lifters and rocker arms and cams Found on right side exhaust lifters collapsed and left side exhaust lifters noisy. Replaced lifters and rocker arms on exhaust side cyl heads and replaced right/left valve cover gaskets and intake manifold gaskets due to the noise in the engine/request

Second dealership: Found callapsed lifters in the motor and damage to the intake cam and exhaust cam shafts. Replaced the rocker rollers, cam shafts and lifters all on the left side of the vehicle in the motor.
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post #6 of 13 Old 08-17-2017, 01:43 PM
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You have an oil control or VVT control issue.
Tappets collapse for two reasons - not enough oil psi (so they never pump up all the way) or too much oil psi (they pump up too hard "blow out"). Once a tappet cant pump up all the way your cam and follower beat themselves up from too much clatter. The VVT system controls valve timing/duration using oil flow (in conjunction with a hyd cam gear), more oil raises the tappet and the cam profile starts valve events early or lowering the flow lowers the tappet to start valve events later. If you don't have low oil pressure elsewhere (like in the main journal) the problem is plugged oil galley or bad controllers. I see more engine work down the line either way!
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post #7 of 13 Old 08-18-2017, 09:58 AM Thread Starter
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Great! Just what I need. I got a call this morning saying that the they had to replace the left crank shaft. What the hell else could go wrong? Should I just lemon it at this point. I do have one more service under NC lemon law but at this point its sounding like there is something seriously wrong with my Jeep!
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post #8 of 13 Old 08-18-2017, 10:18 AM
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Great! Just what I need. I got a call this morning saying that the they had to replace the left crank shaft. What the hell else could go wrong? Should I just lemon it at this point. I do have one more service under NC lemon law but at this point its sounding like there is something seriously wrong with my Jeep!
I wouldnt lemon.... Just gonna want to push for a new engine. This one is gonna be a problem probably forever.

Also.... what is the "left" crankshaft? I didnt know there was a left and right.

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post #9 of 13 Old 08-18-2017, 12:39 PM
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I wouldnt lemon.... Just gonna want to push for a new engine. This one is gonna be a problem probably forever.

Also.... what is the "left" crankshaft? I didnt know there was a left and right.
Agreed - push for an engine.

Left crankshaft is probably a communication breakdown - oil goes through the oil control main first, the crank galleys then supply the remaining mains as well as divert a portion to the pin journals and split the remainder to left and right banks. A scored control bearing can block oil flow to one side or the other. In this case the crankshaft's coil main is probably starving the left pressure galley to the tappets either by blockage (partially spun bearing or improper alignment of control holes at assembly) or excessive bleed off (too wide a clearance) and would also starve the cam bearings themselves as well as the lobes which are oiled in part by what comes off the journals. So a bad crank (or galley plug leaking off PSi on one side) starving left side is not far fetched and could have been easily misunderstood as a left crank (especially if stated as left crankshaft galley plug bleed off wiped the crank).
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post #10 of 13 Old 08-18-2017, 08:37 PM Thread Starter
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I wouldnt lemon.... Just gonna want to push for a new engine. This one is gonna be a problem probably forever.

Also.... what is the "left" crankshaft? I didnt know there was a left and right.
Agreed - push for an engine.

Left crankshaft is probably a communication breakdown - oil goes through the oil control main first, the crank galleys then supply the remaining mains as well as divert a portion to the pin journals and split the remainder to left and right banks. A scored control bearing can block oil flow to one side or the other. In this case the crankshaft's coil main is probably starving the left pressure galley to the tappets either by blockage (partially spun bearing or improper alignment of control holes at assembly) or excessive bleed off (too wide a clearance) and would also starve the cam bearings themselves as well as the lobes which are oiled in part by what comes off the journals. So a bad crank (or galley plug leaking off PSi on one side) starving left side is not far fetched and could have been easily misunderstood as a left crank (especially if stated as left crankshaft galley plug bleed off wiped the crank).
Thanks for the help. With the fact that they have no eta when a new crank will be available, it sounds like it'll be easier to just give me a new engine! That will avoid the one more chance to fix before lemoning it.
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post #11 of 13 Old 08-20-2017, 12:14 PM
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Agreed - push for an engine.

Left crankshaft is probably a communication breakdown - oil goes through the oil control main first, the crank galleys then supply the remaining mains as well as divert a portion to the pin journals and split the remainder to left and right banks. A scored control bearing can block oil flow to one side or the other. In this case the crankshaft's coil main is probably starving the left pressure galley to the tappets either by blockage (partially spun bearing or improper alignment of control holes at assembly) or excessive bleed off (too wide a clearance) and would also starve the cam bearings themselves as well as the lobes which are oiled in part by what comes off the journals. So a bad crank (or galley plug leaking off PSi on one side) starving left side is not far fetched and could have been easily misunderstood as a left crank (especially if stated as left crankshaft galley plug bleed off wiped the crank).
What you just described sound like the cause of the whole problem if that the case. I didnt realize that the engine could sense that. Learning thangs.
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post #12 of 13 Old 08-20-2017, 12:18 PM Thread Starter
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If I turn it in under the lemon law, since I'm looking at not having a vehicle for over a month without a vehicle to replace the crank shaft, I do not have any trust in this vehicle any more at this point! Does anyone have any experiencing this?
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post #13 of 13 Old 08-21-2017, 11:01 AM
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What you just described sound like the cause of the whole problem if that the case. I didnt realize that the engine could sense that. Learning thangs.
VVT engines are extremely sensitive to oil pressure/volume issues. Very tight controls that when not met (either allowing too much or too little) cause all kinds of issues. Wouldn't surprise me to also see cylinder wash or dry wall issues on the rings/walls (from overfueling a bad Variation on valve timing). The computer masks a ton of stuff - but since ALL tuning is historic (current fueling is based on exhaust state AFTER combustion) some evidence of out of tune still exists - just MUCH harder to find because its in smaller scale.

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