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post #1 of 24 Old 06-17-2017, 07:30 PM Thread Starter
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Refirgerant

On the 2016 JK does it use R134a or 1234yf?

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post #2 of 24 Old 06-17-2017, 10:28 PM
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1234YF started mid-2015, so that's what you've got.
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post #3 of 24 Old 06-18-2017, 05:13 AM
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Look for a data sticker somewhere under the hood. It should tell you what it uses.
(Well, The sticker won't tell you anything. You'll have to read it.)

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post #4 of 24 Old 06-18-2017, 07:16 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks, that's what I figured, not as cool as the R134a. Is it still a DIY recharge?
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post #5 of 24 Old 06-18-2017, 09:12 AM
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It isn't something you can do at home, I don't believe. You need to find your leak in such a new system before you charge it up anyways. The new stuff is so expensive, you'd just be throwing away money.
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post #6 of 24 Old 06-18-2017, 09:20 AM Thread Starter
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It isn't something you can do at home, I don't believe. You need to find your leak in such a new system before you charge it up anyways. The new stuff is so expensive, you'd just be throwing away money.
No, now that I know it's 1234YF I'm not concerned about the coolant. I understand from others that this coolant is not as good as R134a, which is why it's not as cool in the Jeep. One more loss of quality to appease the enviro-idiots.
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post #7 of 24 Old 06-18-2017, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by tecumsa View Post
I understand from others that this coolant is not as good as R134a, which is why it's not as cool in the Jeep.
consider your sources.... - "Carmakers will install HFO-1234yf in systems upgraded to deal with the refrigerant's mild flammability. However, studies discussed at the ICCC meeting indicate the same systems also could be run with R-134a at similar performance levels. Further, work is being done to use the same poly alkylene glycol (PAG) oil with both refrigerants. That would raise the question of HFO-1234yf use in the service industry, certainly in the U.S.

At the OE level, HFO-1234yf is planned for use initially in small-capacity systems, such as in the Chevrolet Cruze with its 1.0-lb (0.5-kg) system, to begin the changeover at lowest possible cost. Carmakers get fuel-economy and global-warming credits for using the new refrigerant in the U.S. In Europe, the EU law is the issue, but careful working of production schedules could limit the liability to equip "new type" vehicles to low volume, to deal with any cost/supply problem."

In other words - it's NOT the refrigerant - its the volume of the refrigerant (and the ratio to oil) in the system which is reduced. Read the sae and understand this - 134 CAN and will get used in the new systems - its cheaper. BUT even then - the system is smaller so no difference in effectiveness!!!!

seriously - if its all just EPA mumbo jumbo enviro-idiots (are you calling me an idiot because I take nothing but pictures and leave nothing but footprints and tire tracks???????) taking something of "quality" away from us - why aren't you advocating that all systems should still be based on ammonia - its far cheaper and much more effective at a much narrower Highside/lowside pressure split even than r12 - but would require a whole extra 4 cubic feet of engine bay/underdash area (and about 12 HP to run the pump)? Not a bad idea - think of how many folks would be removed from the gene pool when servicing wrong... that would surely raised the collective intelligence among service techs as one could only air release ONE time - hard to repeat the mistake when you're dead...

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post #8 of 24 Old 06-18-2017, 12:19 PM
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enviro-idiots (are you calling me an idiot because I take nothing but pictures and leave nothing but footprints and tire tracks???????)
I wouldn't. Most of that contingency would not allow the tire tracks and the rest would limit the footprints.
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post #9 of 24 Old 06-18-2017, 12:32 PM Thread Starter
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Carmakers get fuel-economy and global-warming credits for using the new refrigerant in the U.S..
This is the real reason they are using it, because they need the credits, because the enviros are requiring changes that can't be achieved with known technology without making sacrifices, such as weight reduction, without regards to consumer safety.

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(are you calling me an idiot because I take nothing but pictures and leave nothing but footprints and tire tracks???????)
No, I do better than that. When I'm out backpacking you won't even find my footprints behind. What I call idiots are people who force others to make changes that they are unwilling to make themselves. It's easy to blame cars for the environmental mess we're in, while ignoring the major causes.

Why do you need to cut down a forest to build a new home where none existed before? America's population, in many areas, is on the decline. Live in an existing home, or tear one down and rebuild in its place. You don't need to deforest an area to build a new plan.

Why use A/C at all? 4/40 worked fine when I was a kid, still does. Let's stop using A/C in homes and buildings, learn to live with the heat. You can't cool down a building without throwing the heat somewhere, and generating extra heat to do so.

You want to hold a summit on the environment? Ever hear of Skype? You don't need to fly hundreds of people all over the world to hold a summit. My company is in 90% of the nations in the world, when we need to hold a meeting we use WebEx, we don't fly them all over the place. Not to mention the limo's they ride in to get from point A to point B (with the A/C running).

These are the enviro-idiots. If you fit the mold, then, yes, I will put the label on you as well.
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post #10 of 24 Old 06-18-2017, 01:33 PM
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my ac on our 12 is the coldest air i have ever had, heat as well. though my 96 f250 7.3 is very close and has been a rock since it was made 21 years old and pulling the 12 heep and getting better MPG doing it. somethings old school seems better.

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post #11 of 24 Old 06-18-2017, 01:48 PM Thread Starter
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my ac on our 12 is the coldest air i have ever had, heat as well. though my 96 f250 7.3 is very close and has been a rock since it was made 21 years old and pulling the 12 heep and getting better MPG doing it. somethings old school seems better.
Some things I just don't understand. The car I drove back in the 70's got better gas mileage than any of the cars I have today. I met a guy last year that had that same model/year and he said it still passes the emissions test. Seems like a lot of the changes we've made really weren't necessary.
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post #12 of 24 Old 06-18-2017, 02:09 PM
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Its not just environmental - its cost. Read the sae. They sum it well. If a system with half the volume, and same effective heat disbursement costs twice as much, no one will buy in until the cost comes down. If four plants make r134, but only one makes 1234yf, the one gets to charge what they want UNTIL demand brings the other four plants to production (and profitability). We balk when there is no instant gratification to justify the cost.

We didn't balk when 8 tracks were 20 bucks while cassette players were 60 - we bought the cassette player. We didn't balk when CD players were 100 and cassette players were 30, we bought the CD player (I paid over 300 for my first DVD player while vhs players were 30 - then DVD is 30 and blue-ray 300).

We can't measure refrigerant effectiveness (my office staff on one day complains the office is hot, next day its cold, both days holding 73)based on how we feel, so of course since theres no instant gratification, there's no true benchmark for value!

I pick up my next project in Aug (78 vette silver ann special) - already ordered the parts to replace the A\C. No, not a conversion, a whole 134 system. Because it makes sense to me to use that vs the conversion for the additional cost of a mere 200 bucks (12% higher than the conversion kit). 15 years when the 134 kit was 80% higher than the conversion theres no way in hell I would have spent the coin - it would have been conversion. But demand (and supply catching up) brought it to my budget. That's what the credits are for.

(how in hell do you not leave foot prints - I thought I was the only one with disproportionately long enough arms to swing from trees like a ape - lol)

Blood lead levels in elementary school age children today is less than half of what it was in the late 60s. I know of NO ONE who voluntarily put unleaded fuel in a soft seat engine and during the phase out we saw no increase in hardcseat jobs only - once the leaded was gone - then we saw em - after the valves had been destroyed. Not before. and NO oem willingly tooled up for CM seats UNTIL the mandates removed lead from highway fuels and they were forced to.

I see many people run out and buy into the latest technology in entertainment, gaming and other instantly measurable stuff. If I extoll the virtues of the latest plasma tv or Xbox, I'm cool because we can all see and hear the upgrade benefits. But if i extoll the benefits of the latest technology in refrigerant I'm an enviro idiot simply because you have no measure of the value I see...

And surprisingly I (and Texas law) tend to agree with you on cooling buildings. I own rent homes so am aware of tenant law. Law says I must provide heat because we know cold kills. But no part of the code says I have to provide AC... That's me being nice. 😎
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post #13 of 24 Old 06-18-2017, 02:50 PM
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its a 110 to day and by wed 121. i run a swap cooler. so there be my carbon credits for the enfeebles. now i will roll coal knowing i have paid it forward. this was pirate 4x4 i would then insert the finger icon..

i had a 8 track in my 1971 z28 right up till 1990. LOL pioneer super tuner that never ate a 8 track. I never bought a casset player , skipped that era . When i pulled the super tuner i put in a CD player. Still have the same car today. i bought that in 1980 it was 9 years old. Im done buying new, this heep was the last vehicle i will buy new, special ordered it in 2011. paid cash. Done with these overly complex things that just dont last. should have kept the 66cj and linked it and stretched it..
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post #14 of 24 Old 06-18-2017, 04:29 PM
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115 heat index here today, got to noon and had to stop - kept dripping sweat on the new leather I was working. Swampers only add to the index. Love em in the dry heat tho! Unfortunately I tend to explore (even if on the fence of embracing) the new technologies. But yea I love the simple stuff more. Nostalgia or phobia- either way works!
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post #15 of 24 Old 06-18-2017, 05:14 PM Thread Starter
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Its not just environmental - its cost. Read the sae. They sum it well. If a system with half the volume, and same effective heat disbursement costs twice as much, no one will buy in until the cost comes down. If four plants make r134, but only one makes 1234yf, the one gets to charge what they want UNTIL demand brings the other four plants to production (and profitability). We balk when there is no instant gratification to justify the cost.
Ah, but the cost of the refrigerant isn't more per unit: $850 for a 10lb tank, bring that down to 1lb and ~ $8.50, that's less than the R134 ($12.99/20oz, or $10.39/1lb). Few DIYer's have $850 to drop for that much ref at one time.

The reasoning behind the smaller systems is to increase mpg to meet the govt. forced (by the enviro's) mandates. The technology to squeeze more power out of the same amount of fuel isn't there, you have to achieve it by cutting weight, anywhere and everywhere you can. Cut the thickness of steel, or switch to aluminum, to save weight; results in more fatalities so you develop air bags, but that adds weight and reduces mpg; now you have to cut more weight to make up for the air bags.

You want to make a difference in the world's environment? Stop deforestation. Stop building new homes. Stop building new shopping centers. Switch back to concrete roadways and away from asphalt. Eliminate air conditioning buildings and homes. Switch back to incandescents so you don't dump mercury into the environment.
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