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Unread 03-03-2013, 08:26 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockyClymer View Post
Prot is correct. Unless the new bump stops are incrementally as long as the new lift (which they should not be) then you will gain upward compression. I have what turns out to be a 3.2 in lift, my bump stops are only long enough to prevent spring bind. (The shocks do not top out) So my BSs are about 1 in longer than stock for a net gain of 2 in compression over stock.

You lost 1" of usable suspension compression so far.

From this point, if you need 1" of additional clearance between the tires and body, you have 2 choices.

1) you can add 1" to the bump stop to keep the tires away from the body.

2) You can add a 1" Body Lift to keep the body away from the tires.

If you go with option #1 and add 1" to your current bump stop, you will lose 1" more of usable compression bringing your total loss of suspension travel to 2"

If you go with option #2 and lift your body 1", your suspension remains uneffected. You gained 1" of tire to body clearance without losing any suspension travel.

I know it's alot to take in.

Instead of going with a 3" suspension ONLY lift and adding a 1" bump stop, couldn't you have accomplished the same clearance (body to tire) by going with a 2" Suspension lift with out extending the bump stop (0" bump stop) and a 1" Body lift?

Think about it.

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Unread 03-03-2013, 08:47 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLADE View Post
You lost 1" of usable suspension compression so far.

From this point, if you need 1" of additional clearance between the tires and body, you have 2 choices.

1) you can add 1" to the bump stop to keep the tires away from the body.

2) You can add a 1" Body Lift to keep the body away from the tires.

If you go with option #1 and add 1" to your current bump stop, you will lose 1" more of usable compression bringing your total loss of suspension travel to 2"

If you go with option #2 and lift your body 1", your suspension remains uneffected. You gained 1" of tire to body clearance without losing any suspension travel.

I know it's alot to take in.

Instead of going with a 3" suspension ONLY lift and adding a 1" bump stop, couldn't you have accomplished the same clearance (body to tire) by going with a 2" Suspension lift with out extending the bump stop (0" bump stop) and a 1" Body lift?

Think about it.
We did think about it. What you just said is you would rather spend more time and money on a 1" bodylift rather then go up 1" in suspension lift to achieve the exact same thing..
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Unread 03-03-2013, 09:50 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by JTPhoto View Post
We did think about it. What you just said is you would rather spend more time and money on a 1" bodylift rather then go up 1" in suspension lift to achieve the exact same thing..



Thats not what I said.

I guess I just value the usable and functional suspension travel more than most.


This is what I actually said....

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLADE View Post
A 1" Body lift is a great addition to a mild lift. It will give you a little added clearance without limiting suspension travel like a suspension lift does. They also allow you to get just a little more lift without going over a suspension tipping point. They also help keep the stock feel in the steering and handling.

They do have some benifits that you won't get out of a suspension lift.

I would not consider anything more than a 1.25" body lift though.
I'll break it down for you and explain a little more....

I said....

that a 1" Body lift can be a "great addition to a mild lift"..... Meaning that it will work with the suspension to allow you to get the very most out of the suspension lift.

"It will give you a little added clearance without limiting suspension travel"..... meaning that you get the additional tire clearance without extending the bump stop.

"They also allow you to get just a little more lift without going over a suspension tipping point.".... Meaning that you can get that additional 1" of total lift that would otherwise push your suspension beyond the point where you need drive shaft, exhaust, steering or other modifications that can quickly become expiencive and more consuming (time, money, and indepth).

"They also help keep the stock feel in the steering and handling.".... meaning that your steering is effected less and you maintain more of a stock feel in the handling. Angles of the linkag stays closer to stock, and the geometry of your suspension stays closer to stock.

"They do have some benifits that you won't get out of a suspension lift.".... Meaning you are not effecting the suspension or steering in any way when you achieve the additional lift and clearance from a body lift.

"I would not consider anything more than a 1.25" body lift though."..... Meaning that you can get away with and take advantage of having 1" - 1.25" of Body lift without any ill effects. Going beyond that point all but immediatly runs into negitive issues/effects and turns the Body lift into a problem that is not worth the benifits.
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Unread 03-03-2013, 09:52 AM   #34
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Sorry Slade, your math is incorrect. I added 3 inches space between the axle and frame, then subtracted 1 inch in compression compared to stock....net GAIN of 2 inches. Not going to continue this basic math argument here...
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Unread 03-03-2013, 09:57 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by RockyClymer View Post
Sorry Slade, your math is incorrect. I added 3 inches space between the axle and frame, then subtracted 1 inch in compression compared to stock....net GAIN of 2 inches. Not going to continue this basic math argument here...

You LOST 1" of travel from your starting point (AVAILABLE suspension travel). Your being blinded by what you gained and your over looking what you lost.

How can you not understand that you are stoping your travel 1" away from the original bump stop....

Answer this one simple question...

If you where able to remove that 1" longer bump stop, would you gain 1" of suspension travel from what you have now, or would your travel remain the same, or would you lose travel?


In your case, Using a 2" suspension lift, even with the 1" Bump stop and with the addition of a 1" Body lift, it would allow you to run a 2" bigger tire than what you can run now. You would not lose any suspension travel (from your current setup) and you would be sitting at the same ride height....

The difference is more tire clearance without sacrificing any suspension travel.
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Unread 03-03-2013, 01:14 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLADE View Post
You LOST 1" of travel from your starting point (AVAILABLE suspension travel). Your being blinded by what you gained and your over looking what you lost.

How can you not understand that you are stoping your travel 1" away from the original bump stop....

Answer this one simple question...

If you where able to remove that 1" longer bump stop, would you gain 1" of suspension travel from what you have now, or would your travel remain the same, or would you lose travel?


In your case, Using a 2" suspension lift with even with the 1" Bump stop with the addition of a 1" Body lift would allow you to run a 2" bigger tire than what you can run now. You would not lose any suspension travel (from your current setup) and would be sitting at the same ride height.
Slade, you are not accounting for the additional space between the axle and frame/fenders the suspension lift provides. In other words, a suspension lift actually provides lift. It's like you are assuming a suspension lift does not increase this distance and thus the longer bump stop reduces the suspension travel.
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Unread 03-03-2013, 01:25 PM   #37
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Thanks Prot...I gave up on Slade's math a few posts back... +3-1=2...
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Unread 03-03-2013, 01:36 PM   #38
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only thing a body lift does is allow for bigger tires without spending big money for a suspension lift. I personally wouldn't do a body lift on a wrangler, i would much rather have a lot more suspension travel, but for a guy on a budget i dont see why a 1" body lift is a problem.
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Unread 03-03-2013, 01:44 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by RockyClymer View Post
Thanks Prot...I gave up on Slade's math a few posts back... +3-1=2...
Thanks RockyClymer. For a little while, I felt like everyone was agreeing with him and I had somehow slipped over into bizarro world.
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Unread 03-03-2013, 01:46 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Prot View Post
Slade, you are not accounting for the additional space between the axle and frame/fenders the suspension lift provides. In other words, a suspension lift actually provides lift. It's like you are assuming a suspension lift does not increase this distance and thus the longer bump stop reduces the suspension travel.

I'm accounting for all of it. I'm accounting for every available inch of travel possible. I'm accounting for the entire range the suspension has to operate in. I'm accounting for the distance needed between a Bump stop and the body for a given tire size. I'm accounting for the final overall lift height.
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Unread 03-03-2013, 02:16 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by RockyClymer View Post
Thanks Prot...I gave up on Slade's math a few posts back... +3-1=2...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prot View Post
Thanks RockyClymer. For a little while, I felt like everyone was agreeing with him and I had somehow slipped over into bizarro world.
It's not bizar or difficult to understand.... I'm not sure why you gentlemen can't grasp it.

Surly I'm not the only one who understands this....

If you lift your Jeep 3" (suspension only) and do NOT add a bump stop,...
How much clearance have you gained under compression? (ANSWER: 0)
How much have you limited your suspension? (ANSWER 0)

If you lift your Jeep 3" (suspension only) and ADD a 1" bump stop...
How much clearance have you gained under compression? ( ANSWER: 1" or 2" in tire size)
How much have you limited your suspension? (ANSWER: 1" at the bump stop)

If you lift your Jeep 3" (2" suspension/ 1" Body lift) and do NOT add a bump stop,...
How much clearance have you gained under compression? (ANSWER: 1" or 2" in tire sizes)
How much have you limited your suspension? (ANSWER: 0)

If you lift your Jeep 3" (2" suspension/1" Body lift) and ADD a 1" Bump stop,...
How much clearance have you gained under compression? (ANSWER 2" or 4" in tire sizes)

How much have you limited your suspension travel? (ANSWER 1" at the bump stop)

Now go back to your 3" suspension only lift... To gain 2" of clearance between the body and the tire (4" in tire size) you'll have to have a 2" Bump stop. That 2" bump stop translates into 2" of lost suspension travel at the bump stop. That 2" of lost travel at the bump stop translates into even MORE of a loss of travel at the tire.
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Unread 03-03-2013, 03:27 PM   #42
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a body lift does not improve suspension travel, it only makes room for bigger tires.

a suspension lift yields more travel AND allows for bigger tires.
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Unread 03-03-2013, 03:34 PM   #43
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Part of equation not being discussed is shocks. Are the bump stops your talking about to protect the tires from stuffing into a fender or to protect the shocks from bottoming out? If the bump stop is keeping the longer travel shocks from bottoming then it doesn't matter if you BL or not you don't gain anymore travel.
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Unread 03-03-2013, 03:49 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Filthy-Beast View Post
Part of equation not being discussed is shocks. Are the bump stops your talking about to protect the tires from stuffing into a fender or to protect the shocks from bottoming out? If the bump stop is keeping the longer travel shocks from bottoming then it doesn't matter if you BL or not you don't gain anymore travel.

There is alot of the equation not being discussed.


I don't believe the current crowd could handle it if we threw shock mount location into the equation.
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Unread 03-03-2013, 04:37 PM   #45
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Riddle me this: Does putting a body lift on increase suspension travel? Simply no. I don't see how this point is arguable to anyone Slade.
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