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The ULTIMATE "Selectable" Locker System! BroughRockridge 4WD IS Taking Zone Offroad Suspension Lift Kits WJ Modular Recovery & Bull Bar Relocation Packages

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Unread 03-02-2013, 06:03 PM   #16
wranglerboy13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighandLow View Post

This is the exact set up that I run. although I'm no "expert", if you would like a visual check my gallery for a few progressive shots of my slow but sure build. Now, I cannot attest to any heavy wheeling capabilities or drawbacks as I have only wheeled it lightly (plans to test it on an extended vacation through AZ and CA this summer). But, esthetically it looks very good IMHO. It handles well on the highway and behaved nicely in the sand dunes on the beach. I'm no hardcore wheeler by any means. I am adding skids and relocation for my trip this summer but, basically I'm a DD that likes the fun of upgrading and lightly modding my jeep.
Sweet, looks like a legit 3.5" lift. Nice job. Do you have any control arm changes or trackball changes?

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Unread 03-02-2013, 07:06 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLADE

Bump Stops...

With a suspension lift, You do not gain any additional clearance under compression unless a bump stop is added/extended. A body lift increases the distance from the body to the bump stop without taking away from the suspension travel.

Extended bumpstops are installed to protect body/fenders so when stuffing big tires your upward travel is decreased. A bodylift will give a little extra wiggle room here. But bumpstops do not decrease suspension travel over stock if installed with a complete kit.
Droop on the other hand is limited by shock length. The longer the shock the farther the droop, that is as long as wiring, brake lines etc allow it to droop to full shock extension. It can droop till the springs fall out if the shocks are long enough.
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Unread 03-02-2013, 07:36 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by JTPhoto View Post
Extended bumpstops are installed to protect body/fenders so when stuffing big tires your upward travel is decreased. A bodylift will give a little extra wiggle room here. But bumpstops do not decrease suspension travel over stock if installed with a complete kit.


Extending a bump stop limits the range the suspension can move, regardless if they are installed with a "complete kit"...


A bump stop does decrease the suspension travel.... thats their purpose....

Bump stops protect the body because they decrease/limit the amount of available suspension travel...
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Unread 03-02-2013, 07:57 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLADE

Extending a bump stop limits the range the suspension can move in regardless if they are installed with a "complete kit"...

A bump stop does decrease the suspension travel.... thats their purpose....

Bump stops protect the body because they decrease/limit the amount of available suspension travel...
Slade' you are wrong. JTphoto is correct.

A suspension lift increases the suspension travel. Bump stops prevent the tires from being lifted too high for the fenders. Even though they limit suspension travel upward, they still allow more upward travel than a stock suspension.

In other words, the entire frame and tub is sitting higher up and further from the axle.

A body lift lifts the tub from the frame. The frame stays the same distance from the axle.

With body lifts, especially excessive body lifts, you encounter problems such as wires being too short or pulled too tight if there not enough slack. Sometimes shifting mechanisms such for a manual transmission are affected but can be remedied.

I am sorry for somewhat derailing this thread, but when I see misinformation being posted, I tend to say something about to prevent someone from being lead astray.

FWIW, flat fenders and properly back backspaced wheels are an easy way to build a low center of gravity rig with big tires. I don't care for it myself but to each their own.

The bottom line is a suspension lift increases capability, not decreases.
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Unread 03-02-2013, 08:10 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prot View Post
Slade' you are wrong. JTphoto is correct.

A suspension lift increases the suspension travel. Bump stops prevent the tires from being lifted too high for the fenders. Even though they limit suspension travel upward, they still allow more upward travel than a stock suspension.

In other words, the entire frame and tub is sitting higher up and further from the axle.



You may need to take a step back and get a better understanding of whats going on as a whole instead of just what your getting out of the suspension LIFT. Do you even realize how contradicting your own statement is?

Do you not understand that decreasing the need for a bump stop increases the amount of usable suspension travel?

Do you not understand that even if you add 3" of droop and then add a 2" bump stop, you still decreased your available suspension travel by 2"?



So what is incorrect my statement you quoted?



Quote:
Originally Posted by SLADE View Post
Extending a bump stop limits the range the suspension can move, regardless if they are installed with a "complete kit"...


A bump stop does decrease the suspension travel.... thats their purpose....

Bump stops protect the body because they decrease/limit the amount of available suspension travel...
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Unread 03-02-2013, 08:14 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLADE

Extending a bump stop limits the range the suspension can move in regardless if they are installed with a "complete kit"...

A bump stop does decrease the suspension travel.... thats their purpose....

Bump stops protect the body because they decrease/limit the amount of available suspension travel...
Bumpstops limit only upward travel... you can still have as much downward travel as want.

The purpose of a complete kit is to take your factory suspension and move X number of inches from the frame without losing suspension travel. If you have a complete 2" lift for example you have
-2" bumpstop extensions
- 2 to 3" extended shocks or shock extensions.
- 2" longer springs or lift spacer
Effectively extending the same suspension travel as factory 2" farther from the frame and body. This does not limit your travel to less then it was stock. And is not intended to give you 2" more suspension travel then it was stock.
You can certainly increase upward travel by 2" by not using the bumpstop extensions but you may bottom out your shocks, over compress the springs, and rub the body.
Droop is determined by shock length and is a safer why to increase suspension travel. What you loose in upward travel from a bumpstop can easily be gained in droop with longer shocks effectively giving you twice the suspension travel as stock.
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Unread 03-02-2013, 08:28 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prot

With body lifts, especially excessive body lifts, you encounter problems such as wires being too short or pulled too tight if there not enough slack. Sometimes shifting mechanisms such for a manual transmission are affected but can be remedied.
The only BL that's being talked about, and that I'm aware is even available is 1.25" . This is not a 2-3" BL on a CJ/YJ/TJ, 1.25" is fairly minimal.

It's not a bad idea, I'd say its probably a toss up between the 2.5" +BL, and a full 3.5" lift. The only thing is with a 3.5" lift you may need to replace the front driveshaft, which will drive the cost and complexity up. The cost may be worth the better handling of the upgraded steering, I have no idea on that one.
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Unread 03-02-2013, 08:28 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTPhoto View Post
Bumpstops limit only upward travel... you can still have as much downward travel as want.

Yea..... Thats what I said.....


Bump stops limit upward travel keeping the tires out of the body....

A BL will increase the distance between the body and the bump stop by 1" without taking that 1" out of the suspension travel....

A suspension lift only setup will increase the distance with a Bump Stop only... That in turn will remove 1" of usable suspension travel.


I really don't know whats so hard to understand.
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Unread 03-02-2013, 08:46 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wranglerboy13

Sweet, looks like a legit 3.5" lift. Nice job. Do you have any control arm changes or trackball changes?
No changes at all to CA or TB. I have heard people talk about the need for longer/stronger CA's and drive shaft angle changes as well. I'm prepared to cross those bridges as they come. And ball joints too. All of it makes sense. But the AEV and TF 2.5 lifts are ready out of the box. So I figured I'd tack it all on, drive it, wheel it, and see what I needed from there. Learning from here and my own experiences is what it's all about for me.
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Unread 03-02-2013, 09:02 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLADE

Yea..... Thats what I said.....

Bump stops limit upward travel keeping the tires out of the body....

A BL will increase the distance between the body and the bump stop by 1" without taking that 1" out of the suspension travel....

A suspension lift only setup will increase the distance with a Bump Stop only... That in turn will remove 1" of usable suspension travel.

I really don't know whats so hard to understand.
Not hard to understand at all but my point is if you want MORE suspension travel from a lift, why would you spend time and money on a bodylift to gain a measly 1- 2" up travel when for the sake of a good set of long travel shocks and extended brakelines you can gain 4" longer down travel.

The only reason for going body lift is to keep factory fenders. You can run 35" tires and flat fenders with no lift.
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Unread 03-02-2013, 09:58 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLADE View Post
Yea..... Thats what I said.....


Bump stops limit upward travel keeping the tires out of the body....

A BL will increase the distance between the body and the bump stop by 1" without taking that 1" out of the suspension travel....

A suspension lift only setup will increase the distance with a Bump Stop only... That in turn will remove 1" of usable suspension travel.


I really don't know whats so hard to understand.
You are the one that is contradicting yourself.

The bump stop is there to stop the tires from raising up too much and hitting the fender. A suspension lift increases upward travel although not as much as it increases downward travel. The bumpstops that are supplied with the lift limit the amount of upperward travel the lift provides, but that amount is still greater than the amount of upward travel the stock suspension provides. Of course it is possible to put longer bump stops than you need and severely limit the upper suspension travel, but why would someone do that?

In other words, a suspension lift provides more upward travel than a stock suspension does, but there is a greater gain on the downward travel than the upward travel.

One way to think of it is resetting where 0 is.

My post concerning wiring being too short etc. is directed more towards the extreme body lifts.

Personally, I don't like body lifts but, 1" body lift isn't bad.

It's kind of like budget boosts. A small budget boost isn't bad, but when you get too tall of one, problems and irregularities crop up.

Generally the higher you go with a suspension lift, the more components are needed to get everything to work right together and to have enough adjustments available to dial it in.

Here is a similar thread btw

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f15/s...travel-385204/
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Unread 03-02-2013, 10:41 PM   #27
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Prot is correct. Unless the new bump stops are incrementally as long as the new lift (which they should not be) then you will gain upward compression. I have what turns out to be a 3.2 in lift, my bump stops are only long enough to prevent spring bind. (The shocks do not top out) So my BSs are about 1 in longer than stock for a net gain of 2 in compression over stock.
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Unread 03-02-2013, 11:05 PM   #28
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I think you're all correct. Take any lift and add a 1" BL and you will possibly gain up travel if your shocks don't bottom out. that's a big if though. Personally I don't like BL on JKs. I have one my LJ but that was for a tummy tuck.
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Unread 03-03-2013, 05:57 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by JTPhoto View Post
Not hard to understand at all but my point is if you want MORE suspension travel from a lift, why would you spend time and money on a bodylift to gain a measly 1- 2" up travel when for the sake of a good set of long travel shocks and extended brakelines you can gain 4" longer down travel.

The only reason for going body lift is to keep factory fenders. You can run 35" tires and flat fenders with no lift.

I never sugusted or implied that a body lift should be ran instead of or in place of a Suspension lift.

1" and esspeciall 2" (we are only talking about a 1" gain) of up travel is far from "measly" when your suspension may only have 10"-14" at that point.

If you take into consideration the actuall tire movement effected by that loss in 1" compression, it becomes even more significant. A 1" loss in suspension compression could translate into 3" of lost tire range of motion. The tire is farthur away from the centerline of the axle (pivot point).


So you believe that the ending droop location is more important than the final compression location....
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Unread 03-03-2013, 06:16 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Prot View Post
The bump stop is there to stop the tires from raising up too much and hitting the fender. A suspension lift increases upward travel although not as much as it increases downward travel. The bumpstops that are supplied with the lift limit the amount of upperward travel the lift provides, but that amount is still greater than the amount of upward travel the stock suspension provides. Of course it is possible to put longer bump stops than you need and severely limit the upper suspension travel, but why would someone do that?

In other words, a suspension lift provides more upward travel than a stock suspension does, but there is a greater gain on the downward travel than the upward travel.



One way to think of it is resetting where 0 is.



If your stock suspension stops the axle 3" from the frame, and after you install a suspension lift the axle is stoped 5" from the frame....

How does a suspension lift provide "more upward travel than a stock suspension does"?


Your not "resetting where 0 is", 0 is still at the same point your just stoping travel before you get to 0 . So instead of stoping at 0, with the extended bump stop your now stoping at 2 or 3 or whatever you extended the bump stops.

After your lift is installed (say 2.5" with a 1.5" bump stop), and you need just a little more room for tire... how do you get that additional clearance wirthout extending the bump stop (losing available suspension travel)?

Even if you add a 1" coil spacer, the bump stop is still in the same location relitive to the body. If you swap from a 2.5" coil to a 3.5" coil, the bump stop is still in the same location in relation to the body.

Basically, you can't get that extra clearance without increasing the distance from the bumpstop and the body.

If that extra 1" of suspension lift (going from 2.5"-3.5") puts the suspension over the tipping point where you have to address the steering, driveshafts, exhaust, and other issues, then thats something to be considered also.


You have to look at the big picture.
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