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Unread 12-07-2012, 01:24 PM   #76
RockKrawler
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This excercise might be good for everyone following this thread. We have gone through this same excercise on other forums. Please describe the order of operations on how your JK was built? I.E, first I installed the lift, wheels, and tires, then I installed x, y, and z and made what for adjustments? This might not just be an alignment issue. We use coil springs as tell tale signs of what needs to be adjusted.

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Unread 12-07-2012, 01:54 PM   #77
Walle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockKrawler View Post
This excercise might be good for everyone following this thread. We have gone through this same excercise on other forums. Please describe the order of operations on how your JK was built? I.E, first I installed the lift, wheels, and tires, then I installed x, y, and z and made what for adjustments? This might not just be an alignment issue. We use coil springs as tell tale signs of what needs to be adjusted.
Okay, now I am confused...This might not just be an alignment issue.

Now this makes me look like a ******* agreeing with you that the most probable cause is the fact that I didn't have a professional alignment. Now you say that it might not be an alignment issue.

My Build...
2012
May - Lift
June - Tires (stock wheels with spacers)
November - Bent Coils

No other mods were made to the suspension other than those listed.
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Unread 12-07-2012, 02:02 PM   #78
Apostle
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So, in and out of this thread.

But will say this, the vehicle is a 2012, so its what a year old? Means the springs are about a year old. I dont care what anyone says about "alignment" that is a defective product.

So question is, is RK going to replace for free (seeing as if it is an alignment issue it was not stated in the settup of it) or try to finagle the cost from the customer? (i can see paying shipping, but not for the springs).

I was looking at their products, this is a big factor on purchase if they dont stand behind it.

It is as simple as that
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Unread 12-07-2012, 02:06 PM   #79
Walle
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Originally Posted by Apostle View Post
So, in and out of this thread.

But will say this, the vehicle is a 2012, so its what a year old? Means the springs are about a year old. I dont care what anyone says about "alignment" that is a defective product.

So question is, is RK going to replace for free (seeing as if it is an alignment issue it was not stated in the settup of it) or try to finagle the cost from the customer? (i can see paying shipping, but not for the springs).

I was looking at their products, this is a big factor on purchase if they dont stand behind it.

It is as simple as that
JK is a '12. The springs were on for 6 months, if that (give or take 2 weeks). Jeremy stated on the phone that they are refunding me my money for the replacement coils I purchased, and they will replace the coils.

He said that coils are not blindly warrantied, and that if customers do have issues with non-hard items (hard items being control arms, trac bars, etc), they must provide proof of a proper setup.
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Unread 12-07-2012, 02:14 PM   #80
HOKIES2010
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Pics and details, still waiiting for aligment numbers

Installed first:
Jcr bumpers
Warn Winch
Ace Flat fenders
Installed next at the same time:
Poly Inner and outer sleeves
Poly C gussets
Ried knuckes
Poly Hd ball joints
RK 5.5 x factor mid arm (with 3.5 springs)
RRD shocks
37x12.50 nitto trail grapplers
Then installed:
5.13 gears
Jcr sliders
Or-fab swing away carrier
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Unread 12-07-2012, 03:01 PM   #81
RockKrawler
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Did you have the full size spare on there prior to installing the OR Fab tire carrier some how? I did just send OR Fab and email as well with some questions since I am not familiar with their loading conditions of their tire carrier.

RK
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Unread 12-07-2012, 03:04 PM   #82
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How is the rear pinion angle?
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Unread 12-07-2012, 03:09 PM   #83
suicideking
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Despite all the complaining and bandwagon finger pointing in this thread, I am very happy with my 2.5" max travel.

In the next few months, I plan to replace my 2.5" coils with RK 3.5" coils and will eventually add RK upper CA's.

Furthermore, I doubt I will ever buy a lift that is not made by RK.
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Unread 12-07-2012, 03:20 PM   #84
RockKrawler
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This just in from Chris at OR-Fab. Good guy by the way..

"The hinged will always bear a little bit more load in the way it’s designed. That’s why it has a bit more bracing in the hinge side"

If the hinge side carriers more weight it might be the cause of the lean. But, here is what I am getting at for everyone. Be careful of your loading conditions and order of operations! We build alot of vehicles here..

When you get products, it is like Christmas, tear the packages open, get them on the vehicle as fast as possible! Heck, we do it.. And I am not saying this guy did or did not do it. It is just for information. Anyway, if the lift was installed and everything was verified to be square etc, that is great. Then, you start adding accessories and in this case it could have been a full size spare and swing out tire carrier. When a cantered load like that is added it does a few things; it will lower the end of the vehicle it was added to, but since it is a cantered load, it was raise the other end! So, lets assume it was in the rear for the sake of discussion; the rear of the vehicle went down, so you will get a little axle rotation from the control arms, but the bigger effect in JK's is the track bar will move the axle to the driver's side in the back. The converse effect happens in the front of the vehicle. This disrupts the loading condition on coil springs and can cause issues.

For discussion purposes only, it is best when performing operations like the above, to take a good look at the axle positioning and resquare everything when changing loading conditions. This is best for the vehicle in the long run and we see this happen often to customers who do not take these things into account.

Just food for thought.

RK
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Unread 12-07-2012, 03:24 PM   #85
RockKrawler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walle View Post
Okay, now I am confused...This might not just be an alignment issue.

Now this makes me look like a ******* agreeing with you that the most probable cause is the fact that I didn't have a professional alignment. Now you say that it might not be an alignment issue.

My Build...
2012
May - Lift
June - Tires (stock wheels with spacers)
November - Bent Coils

No other mods were made to the suspension other than those listed.
That is correct, this might not be an alignment issue .i.e. looking at alignment specs. There are things they can and cannot tell you. In this persons case there are alot of other dynamics possibly at play. Please see my above post.

RK
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Unread 12-07-2012, 04:12 PM   #86
rhyno46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockKrawler View Post
To all of you following this thread, I would like to see your response to this! We are using this thread for training.


If you were to be in a manufacturer's position and had items that required customer intervention of some form or another, would you just handle it blindly? How would you like to see it handled? What we have seen from experience, is that just blindly warrantiing any item generally puts a customer in a worse position in the long run which is what no one wants to see. It is easy to say for many "RK just warranty the coils", but what if something really went wrong for this gentleman and we had an opportunity to catch it prior to that event.

Jeremy
No, I don't expect blind warranting parts. It is reasonable to want information on the setup so that you can direct them toward a proper setup that prevents the issue from recurring. However, in this case, the gentleman has changed out the (approx 6 month old) suspension and it was in your best interest to send him new coils along with a note indicating how to properly set it up before it goes to its next owner.

What do you mean by "generally puts a customer in a worse position in the long run"?
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Unread 12-07-2012, 04:31 PM   #87
RockKrawler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhyno46 View Post
No, I don't expect blind warranting parts. It is reasonable to want information on the setup so that you can direct them toward a proper setup that prevents the issue from recurring. However, in this case, the gentleman has changed out the (approx 6 month old) suspension and it was in your best interest to send him new coils along with a note indicating how to properly set it up before it goes to its next owner.

What do you mean by "generally puts a customer in a worse position in the long run"?
That means, that if the root of the problem is not corrected, the customer can be in a worse position as time goes on. For example, if the customer is running light on caster which of course can cause coil spring issues, eventually as further components wear and a light caster condition is present, death wobble can become prevalent.

RK
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Unread 12-07-2012, 04:40 PM   #88
suicideking
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhyno46 View Post
No, I don't expect blind warranting parts. It is reasonable to want information on the setup so that you can direct them toward a proper setup that prevents the issue from recurring. However, in this case, the gentleman has changed out the (approx 6 month old) suspension and it was in your best interest to send him new coils along with a note indicating how to properly set it up before it goes to its next owner.

What do you mean by "generally puts a customer in a worse position in the long run"?
If this was an RK problem, I would think others would be complaining of this. Since there aren't a bunch of people with this problem, it is normal to assume that the customer did something to cause this.

I work in the IT field. People always claim that they did nothing and things went wrong. Sometimes we can trace it to user error or server error. Other times we can't figure out why things went wrong, only focus on how to fix it. If there are no re-occurrences of the same problem, sometimes we never know what the cause is.

In this case, the OP is changing to a different lift. Since he is not putting the same springs back on, we will not be able to find out if the same thing would happen. Issue is resolved essentially...
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Unread 12-07-2012, 04:50 PM   #89
RockKrawler
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What stinks to us is the OP really never had it aligned on a rack. If someone basis an alignment off the ground, the potential for error is huge. If a simple angle finder is used, then the following questions arise, what was the angle of the ground that it sat on. There are very few sets of eyes out there that can see 2 degrees, but being off 2 degrees will upset a pair of coils. That is why we always look for a professional alignment sheet. Once the vehicle has gone through a caster sweep on a rack, it should be extremely accurate as long as the machine is in calibration. This is not triing to bash the OP either. Just pointing out variations that can occur. Like you mentioned, there are alot of reasons things can happen, triing to focus on the resolution and get good information is always our focus. Our tech help can only be as good as the information we recieve.

If it was a simple hard part, like we said, the warranty is easy. Digital image and done. Items that involve setup, well there is alot to do and verify.

RK
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Unread 12-07-2012, 06:15 PM   #90
04 RUBI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockKrawler View Post
Honestly, I do not remember it, but I deal with a lot of people each and everyday. I do remember and employee stating something very similar to that at one point in time and was repremanded for it, but he is no longer with us as I stated. Are you sure I said it as I am sure given that situation, you must have talked to several people here! Sorry for the situation and I certainly do not remember all the details. In business 99.9% of the experiences are very good, but there are situations that can go wrong and do or we certainly would not be in business.

Jeremy
Seriously? Yes, it was you. We talked several times. I keep trying to get out of this conversation, and here we are again. I do notice you don't comment on the more important issues we had. You quote me, but don't address the more important aspects. I'm not an overly sensitive democrat sad about an insult. My gripe was the loss of money trying to fix the problem your gear caused. That money is gone between tows, alignments, etc. It ain't coming back.
Again, I posted to tell OP he wasn't the only one. You keep cherry picking what I have to say to save face while avoiding the other points I have made.
If you are going to reply to me again, please read all my comments. They seem to be ignored.
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