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Unread 12-06-2012, 11:49 AM   #61
Walle
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For anyone in the business world that has heard of this or read about it...

Girad's Law of 250

This is even more important in the Jeep world!



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Blame that on me...I'm not liked around here for not drinking the koolaide :laugh:
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Unread 12-06-2012, 11:53 AM   #62
RockKrawler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1222 View Post
I have a question for you. If you believe that it was an alignment issue that caused them to bow like that then wouldn’t it (alignment) have to be grossly off for that to happen? And if it were grossly off then wouldn’t his Jeep handle like crap?

I am no expert in front suspensions and am learning as I go. I am not questioning your expertise in this matter at all; just curious how they could have ended up like that if they weren’t defective to begin with.
JK coils are very picky on setup as are the end codes for the coils. What sucks is, initially the coils will look ok unless they are grossly off, until over time, the coils take a set and the top and bottom windings try to relax into the pockets being out of orientation.

Hope that helps.

RK
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Unread 12-06-2012, 03:32 PM   #63
1222
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^^^Thanks for the reply and it does help. Like I said above, I’m learning as I go and would never have guessed that was the problem in a million years.
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Unread 12-06-2012, 03:35 PM   #64
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No problem. Unfortunately we were unable to get all the information we would have liked from this gentleman to actually know everything as it was not aligned, but from our experience that can happen. Maybe if guys on here are familiar with TJ's, you know what happens with TJ rear coils over time do to axle rotation! The same things hold true for JK's...

RK
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Unread 12-06-2012, 04:00 PM   #65
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I have seen several pics of TJs liked you described and they weren’t pretty.
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Unread 12-06-2012, 04:54 PM   #66
222Doc
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Can not believe i read it through.

Lift worked)make NOTE(. an unsprung spring that has shaped, really. I would bet all do, in the end. the end.

as for metal cloak. The shocks are interresting, and the overliner fenders nice idea. The arms? never unless they go JJ .Currie and the other top ones are all JJ both ends. Now give me a set of those six pack shocks(2K), set of full JJ. pick a spring your jeep will set a curve in them. you wont know unless you take it apart alot.

op sells the kit cheep your gain on this one, my 2cents. I Know a guy here that would love that lift cheep.
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Unread 12-06-2012, 05:03 PM   #67
djm
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I am not all that mechanically inclined and was trying to understand what went wrong here, at one point I thought that maybe the new coil springs might be just what I want/need to put a larger tire on the jeep and keep the front from sagging when I install a winch bumper and winch.

That being said, it appears that they may have been a little bit of a mis communication between the people involved. That happens sometimes in any business. I spent 40 years dealing with the public, some time there are misunderstandings, not always someone's fault, it just happens. Sometimes it can be atributed to the management pushing employees to do more with less, othe times it can be attributed to not listening, you may have heard about a similar problem from 25 other customers, but you didn't listen to MY problem. In the medical field I'm told they refer it to the "door knob question" just as the doctor is leaving the room the patient asks oh by the way ...." I was just on a safari in the jungles of Africa and was bit by a spider" could that be what is cauing my issue? The message is you have to listen.

I do have to say that it seemed to me that once you came on line and responded here, that you were set on getting to the bottom of the issue and offering whatever reasonable solution you could.

That being said, based upon your response here, I would not hesitate being a customer.

Dan NJ/PA
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Unread 12-06-2012, 05:08 PM   #68
paul84043
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockKrawler View Post
Thanks Leonard glad we had the chance to talk and clear it up.

Our only intention is to ensure things are properly setup and make sure the customer is happy in the long run.

For everyone's knowledge- in general, an item that involves customer intervention, we require proof of proper setup. For coils, we need pictures of them installed showing them from a side view and front view as well as the alignment sheet from a professional alignment shop.

It is darn near impossible to get an accurate alignment without doing a full caster sweep. Otherwise, the potential for error is huge. Even being out only 2 degrees for the bottom spring pads will create an issue like this and typically you will see one coil bow more than the other. Just from looking at the coils themselves one coil body is straight, but the bottom is upset and the other coil shows a bow in the body with an upset bottom. This is not indiicative of a symetrical setup. This is not done to give a customer a hard time or anything, but if there is an issue someplace we want it solved and never to come back again and sometimes that requires more than a blind warranty.

But again, I would really like to hear from those of you following this thread as to how this could better be handled or how you would handle it knowing the risks involved?

Be good Leonard! We will keep watching this thread as we would like to hear from you all regarding the above question.

JP
I think that most of the people that hang out here are fairly intelligent, many older, many business owners, many highly educated. I personally am an engineer by trade.
I COMPLETELY understand RK's point of view, you cannot run a busines with everyone returning their products left and right.
I think that the initial conversation was terminated with questions still unanswered and that led to bad feelings on both parts.

I am very impressed to see RK's continued interaction here in this thread.

Also glad to hear that the one particular tech is no longer with the company...calling customers names is never a good thing.

I am also VERY interested in the outcome because I have this EXACT same lift installed.

I DID do a professional alignment and I believe I still have my printout, which I'm saving, but the outcome of the alignment was NO ADJUSTMENT NECESSARY.
Mine went right in, with zero issues...

It would also be really cool to see continued interaction on this forum by a member of the RK team. To date we have Jason from KRAWL offroad who is awesome, but someone from the factory always has insights that we are looking for.
There is a rep from Chrysler named JeepCares and he is an invaluable resource here on a continued basis....

Just a thought.
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Unread 12-06-2012, 05:10 PM   #69
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We try to pride ourselves in being one of the most technically proficient companies in this industry. You would not beleive the calls we get from customers that are not even ours saying they have brand "X" suspension and "Y" issue and we help them solve their problem or point them in a right direction.

Have a good night all.

RK
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Unread 12-06-2012, 05:59 PM   #70
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To RockKrawler:

#1 - I am overly impressed as to how you handled this situation. Even during the mud-slinging you maintained your professionalism and patience. I, and I'm sure others here, appreciate that. Even if we were not involved in this debacle.

#2 - To answer your quality assurance question: I think you guys did a great job. Well with the exception of said communication breakdown. I think that ignorantly replacing a part without knowing what the problem is could be very harmful. I hope that everyone who has been following this thread takes this as a growing experience. I know I have. A part goes bad: find out why. Don't just replace it.

Thank you everyone. Happy wheeling.
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Unread 12-07-2012, 12:49 AM   #71
04 RUBI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockKrawler View Post

04 RUBI That gentleman is no longer with us after how he handled a few customers and is now in the South. That was a comment made by someone that stuck out in the tech department and alot of us were like, did he really just say that? Irony. We apologize for that.

RK
????? Bull****. He's still there. He own's the place.
I tried to back out of this thread, but for some reason you brought me back up. You ignored my post details except for the south thing. I can recall the full story if you want. Do you still have videos of aluminum TB flat lining? Kind of caused some problems (DW). I did love my 60% refund. When you tell a manufacturer what's wrong, they refuse to believe, then they're proved wrong, what's to say? It cost me a lot of money to correct your kit.
Yeah, I'm the guy that I had to call 3 times to convince you that you sent me 8 rrd shocks that I didn't pay for. What's that? $1600. Had to beg for an RA so I didn't become a thief of opportunity . Never before had to convince someone to take their money back. Yup, still never got a simple thank you for being honest. But I did take it in the *** for the track bar. Plus the expenses I stated before. That does piss me off.
Again, leave this stupid Southern hick (from North Dakota courtesy of 3rd Ranger Batallion) out of this. I can add more details to this story if you like Jeremy.
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Unread 12-07-2012, 08:31 AM   #72
RockKrawler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04 RUBI View Post
????? Bull****. He's still there. He own's the place.
I tried to back out of this thread, but for some reason you brought me back up. You ignored my post details except for the south thing. I can recall the full story if you want. Do you still have videos of aluminum TB flat lining? Kind of caused some problems (DW). I did love my 60% refund. When you tell a manufacturer what's wrong, they refuse to believe, then they're proved wrong, what's to say? It cost me a lot of money to correct your kit.
Yeah, I'm the guy that I had to call 3 times to convince you that you sent me 8 rrd shocks that I didn't pay for. What's that? $1600. Had to beg for an RA so I didn't become a thief of opportunity . Never before had to convince someone to take their money back. Yup, still never got a simple thank you for being honest. But I did take it in the *** for the track bar. Plus the expenses I stated before. That does piss me off.
Again, leave this stupid Southern hick (from North Dakota courtesy of 3rd Ranger Batallion) out of this. I can add more details to this story if you like Jeremy.
Honestly, I do not remember it, but I deal with a lot of people each and everyday. I do remember and employee stating something very similar to that at one point in time and was repremanded for it, but he is no longer with us as I stated. Are you sure I said it as I am sure given that situation, you must have talked to several people here! Sorry for the situation and I certainly do not remember all the details. In business 99.9% of the experiences are very good, but there are situations that can go wrong and do or we certainly would not be in business.

Jeremy
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Unread 12-07-2012, 01:04 PM   #73
HOKIES2010
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To the point of set ups and alignments. I spoke with Justin as well back in Aug about the sag issue. He had told me it happens with bad alignments. I have had it at 2 different shops and paid out the *** for the alighments and my sag issue never went away. Any new reasons for it? I am in Afghanistan at the moment and I do not have my alignment print out in front of me. I know it is a bit off topic btw.
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Unread 12-07-2012, 01:12 PM   #74
RockKrawler
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By sag, do you mean a lean in a given direction? Front, back, side to side? Many things effect that as well as alignment. The equality of the loading accessory wise is another thing to look at. We would be more than happy to try to help you out.
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Unread 12-07-2012, 01:20 PM   #75
HOKIES2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockKrawler View Post
By sag, do you mean a lean in a given direction? Front, back, side to side? Many things effect that as well as alignment. The equality of the loading accessory wise is another thing to look at. We would be more than happy to try to help you out.
The sag is the typical JK lean in the rear passenger side. I'll have my GF grab some photos and asked her to find my last alignment print out.
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