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Unread 04-11-2012, 08:36 AM   #1
ewhite
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Preferred Fire Extinguishers?

Hi,
Being the owner of a new Rubicon, I think a couple of fire extinguishers might be in order. I already have 1.4 lb. and 2.5 lb. Haylon (HalGuard) extinguishers. Would either or both of these be recommended or do you usually go with plain dry chemical units?
TIA,
Ernie

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Unread 04-11-2012, 09:11 AM   #2
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Halon is awesome when there is something to contain the halon charge - it works by being heavier than air and displacing the oxygen. BUT can be non effective when the fire is out in the open and due to an extreme heat source. The possibility of putting out the fire only to have it flash back is much higher in an uncontained environment (engine compartment is open to the bottom - the halon "falls" out and the heat+fuel+air triangle can recomplete). One of each is the best strategy - that way if you get it cleanly with the halon no problem but and if it reflashes you can then get it with the powder. I like halon BECAUSE its clean - no mess or damage from it - NEVER hit an engine compartment with powder while the engine is running unless you don't mind an expensive repair! - and halon can be used to kill a "runaway" engine - that is where the wiring has fried and restarted the engine. DON'T ever use halon on an engulfed person - it will force the air clean out of his lungs and kill him faster than the burns would! Powder is just as bad but only chokes the airway and resuscitation is possible.

Typically CO2 is best (it attacks two of the three sides of the fire triangle - heat and air - but so damn heavy and maintenance intensive they are impractical for the non dedicated fire fighting rig).
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Unread 04-11-2012, 09:29 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwmbishop View Post
Halon is awesome when there is something to contain the halon charge - it works by being heavier than air and displacing the oxygen. BUT can be non effective when the fire is out in the open and due to an extreme heat source. The possibility of putting out the fire only to have it flash back is much higher in an uncontained environment (engine compartment is open to the bottom - the halon "falls" out and the heat+fuel+air triangle can recomplete). One of each is the best strategy - that way if you get it cleanly with the halon no problem but and if it reflashes you can then get it with the powder. I like halon BECAUSE its clean - no mess or damage from it - NEVER hit an engine compartment with powder while the engine is running unless you don't mind an expensive repair! - and halon can be used to kill a "runaway" engine - that is where the wiring has fried and restarted the engine. DON'T ever use halon on an engulfed person - it will force the air clean out of his lungs and kill him faster than the burns would! Powder is just as bad but only chokes the airway and resuscitation is possible.

Typically CO2 is best (it attacks two of the three sides of the fire triangle - heat and air - but so damn heavy and maintenance intensive they are impractical for the non dedicated fire fighting rig).
Crap. I had no idea how much I didn't know about using my fire extinguisher. All I know is that it was about $40 at Sam's Club and it sits under my driver's seat. Maybe I should start reading...
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Unread 04-11-2012, 11:38 AM   #4
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I have the benefit of training (I was stationed on a wooden ship in the NAVY - ALL wood sailors undergo extensive FF training) followed by experience - safety crew at Riverside Raceway and Cajon Speedway.

Just having one is ahead of the curve - but as with all tools - in the wrong hands or used the wrong way can be ineffective or downright dangerous!
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Unread 04-11-2012, 01:18 PM   #5
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great info JW, should be a sticky.........
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Unread 04-11-2012, 02:50 PM   #6
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they also have instructions on the side of the extinguisher. i learned the hard way to read them when u first get the fire extinguisher cause trying to read them and use it correctly when u actually need it isn't fun!
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Unread 04-11-2012, 03:28 PM   #7
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Use halon in a inclosed area you better have a air supply too. though i dont think it has enough to kill you, still. Dry chem is the way to go and like many things two is better than one
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Unread 04-11-2012, 05:59 PM   #8
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So what is the best? Halon based? Good info but no recommendation....
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Unread 04-11-2012, 06:04 PM   #9
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great info JW, should be a sticky.........
Yes it is!
I'm adding a link to this thread in the F.A.Q. right now
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Unread 04-11-2012, 07:19 PM   #10
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Negative on the halon.....great for computer data centers, no bueno for engine fires.
Dry chemical and/or ( preferably and) co2...
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Unread 04-11-2012, 07:57 PM   #11
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When I was on ships (USMM 96-04), Halon was being phased out by Government Mandate. Apparently, it pokes holes in the O-zone. What was in fire systems could be used, but not replaced with the same.

Has this changed?

I keep a dry chem ABC velcroed under my seat
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Unread 04-12-2012, 04:52 AM   #12
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Interesting topic I know nothing about. It looks like the "Halguard" product is a second generation Halon that is being marketed in the auto aftermarket for fire-fighting on fine and collectible cars because it (allegedly) causes no collateral damage. See for example:

http://www.h3rperformance.com/products.htm

This is the chemical manufacturer's description of the properties of the agent, Halotron I:

http://www.halotron.com/halotron1.php.

Sorry OP no answers but I too would like to see what the experts have to say!
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Unread 04-12-2012, 08:56 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwmbishop View Post
Halon is awesome when there is something to contain the halon charge - it works by being heavier than air and displacing the oxygen. BUT can be non effective when the fire is out in the open and due to an extreme heat source. The possibility of putting out the fire only to have it flash back is much higher in an uncontained environment (engine compartment is open to the bottom - the halon "falls" out and the heat+fuel+air triangle can recomplete). One of each is the best strategy - that way if you get it cleanly with the halon no problem but and if it reflashes you can then get it with the powder. I like halon BECAUSE its clean - no mess or damage from it - NEVER hit an engine compartment with powder while the engine is running unless you don't mind an expensive repair! - and halon can be used to kill a "runaway" engine - that is where the wiring has fried and restarted the engine. DON'T ever use halon on an engulfed person - it will force the air clean out of his lungs and kill him faster than the burns would! Powder is just as bad but only chokes the airway and resuscitation is possible.

Typically CO2 is best (it attacks two of the three sides of the fire triangle - heat and air - but so damn heavy and maintenance intensive they are impractical for the non dedicated fire fighting rig).
Very good info... But I was under the impression that Halon was banned, a long time ago.( at least that is the information deseminated in Quebec, Canada)
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Unread 04-12-2012, 09:03 AM   #14
rolandthegypsy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomF View Post
Interesting topic I know nothing about. It looks like the "Halguard" product is a second generation Halon that is being marketed in the auto aftermarket for fire-fighting on fine and collectible cars because it (allegedly) causes no collateral damage. See for example:

http://www.h3rperformance.com/products.htm

This is the chemical manufacturer's description of the properties of the agent, Halotron I:

http://www.halotron.com/halotron1.php.

Sorry OP no answers but I too would like to see what the experts have to say!
Thank you sooo much TomF, for the links. After reading the info I realize that the original Halon must be the one that is illegal in Canada. I stand corrected
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Unread 04-12-2012, 09:21 AM   #15
jwmbishop
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Sorry the recommendation was buried in the info!

The best strategy for a daily driver\ weekend warrior is one of each - dry chem and halon (yes the new generation HalGuard is oZone acceptable, although FE-36 is fully environmentally safe - but still quite expensive as it requires about 30% more volume to have the same effect as Halon 1211 or HalGuard). For a purpose built rig I highly recommend an onboard AFFF system for driver area (Minimally) and\or both driver and fuel source. If you have never been in a tumble there is no way you can understand how disorienting it is.

If you have ever done extreme rocks - you should know how hard you have to work to always think NEVER put the hands out to hold off a rock. Same proactive thought process applies to your fire equip. Handhelds have two purposes ONLY. First and foremost to create an escape path or buy time for escape/rescue, second extinguish SMALL fires before they get big.

Personally I am equipping with a 1 lb halon in driver reach and a 2.5 dry elsewhere - thinking roll bar mounted - if a 1 lb halon does not do the job then the dry backup should. If neither do - its time to break out the wienies and marshmallows anyway! Sadly extinguishers have been on my check list for 5 months and keep getting put off for other goodies - even knowing what I do and being terrified of out of control fires. A fire suppression blanket (minimum 1000 degree rating) is also a good investment - reusable and no cost to "recharge".

I partially disagree with the halon no good for engine fires statement. It is not the engine fire, it is the lack of containment for the halon gas to stay in full presence - once the fire stops drafting there is nothing pulling the halon into the fire triangle and it falls away. Halon is still very effective at putting it out - unlike dry chem it will flow around corners and obstacles and pull into the draft (and as its stored as a liquid and becomes gaseous on discharge it has a heat absorption effect as well). As I noted above - its the possibility of re-flash. Use the halon first to minimize collateral damage - then the dry if that fails. So I do agree Halon should not be your ONLY choice. If you only are going to equip with ONE bottle make it dry.
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