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Unread 02-17-2012, 04:55 PM   #106
jwmbishop
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Yea that Lucas OT is good stuff for a tired engine! Shouldn't need it in a new one tho...

Not sure - but I know the A.I.R system can cause a ticky noise - you actually are hearing the burn off from the injected air in the exhaust (especially cold). Maybe there could be a different sound between a CG and wrangler... as they have different tune and plumbing.

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Unread 02-17-2012, 04:58 PM   #107
JSG1518
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Like I stated b4 mine has only less than 200 miles on it but it has the slight tapping noise. I just went for about a 45 min ride and when I got back and got out it was alittle louder than when I left but not terrible. Also do you notice the noise gets louder with acceleration or reving the engine cause I dont think I notice that?
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Unread 02-17-2012, 09:33 PM   #108
AZBob
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The warranty doesn't really make me comfortable because it all smells like design flaw to me, like a bunch of engineers that were just way over their heads. Warranty repair or not the design flaw is still going to be there.

I've had Mercedes engines that just purred at 300k, cold start, summer heat, thin oil, thick oil, all the time. Obviously these weren't recent Mercedes engines. I'm afraid those guys are over their heads these days too. I have a sneaking suspicion that there's a critical world wide shortage of competitent automotive engineers.
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Unread 02-21-2012, 11:32 AM   #109
chrisjsmith4
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This engine is not a new engine. Its new to jeep and highly tested. Sounds like a bad batch of heads not valves. Mine is getting looked at as we speak. Also went and compared it to a jeep built in january and it didn't have the ticking mine does. Mine built 9-11. will update what they say later.
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Unread 02-21-2012, 01:29 PM   #110
i82much
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for anyone who is concerned - i'd suggest getting a leak-down test performed by a third party mechanic to document the results. if #2 is substantially different than the other cylinders then that would seem to be consistent with the problems others have mentioned on the various forums.
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Unread 02-21-2012, 01:44 PM   #111
chrisjsmith4
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Update. So the gal behind the counter couldn't elaborate on what the issue was other than that they need to tear into the motor to find it. The mechanic said Bank 1 was at .4 while bank 2 was 1.4. I'm guessing this is the leak down test I told them to do. So the Jeep will have to go back and be under the wrench for a few days while they figure out what needs to be done. All I know is they better give me a loaner vehicle!!

I will post a video on youtube of it after the repairs so people can hear a quiet engine. Mine sounded like the ones already posted.
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Unread 02-21-2012, 06:27 PM   #112
DavidJeep
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I have been building engines for quite a few years When the cylinder head is determined defective What happens to the metal shards microscopic particles that have broken away to enlarge a machined area that now is out of spec and causing a tapping sound to get louder and louder ? I ask because if a person was to have the oil analyzed the lab doing the analysis would see metal fragments within the oil and circulating throughout the entire oil system damaging other internally oiled parts ( bearings ,valvetrain components etc etc ) Why doesn't Chrysler replace the entire engine instead of replacing the cyclinder head ? without properly cleaning and inspecting of any areas that come in contact with this metal particle contaminated oil the life span of this particular engine in question will be shortened any thoughts ?? I can't wait to see how Chrysler damage control handle this FACT ! I know alot of you engine builders here know I am right !!
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Unread 02-21-2012, 06:36 PM   #113
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Oil Filter ???

Oil Filter ?? LOL Nice try a oil filter has a micron rating and it will not pick up all of the metal frags Also by the time the oil filter has filtered ALL of the engine oil the damage will already be done ( a oil filter only is filtering about 20% of the oil while the other 80% is lubricating all the conponents during a operating engine) once a oil filter is dirty a check valve inside the oiling systems close to the filter and opens a by pass around the oil filter to ensure proper oil pressure inside the engine
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Unread 02-22-2012, 05:16 PM   #114
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Chrysler GuuuUUULP !!!!!
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Unread 02-22-2012, 07:40 PM   #115
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Well its been a couple weeks since Ive had the head replaced. Yesterday while out driving through town I was slowing to a stop and the Jeep started to idle rough. I thought that it was going to die and it kept doing it. I drove it again today and it feels fine. Another thing I noticed was the tail pipe. The Jeep is parked right next to my 120,000 mile Chevy truck that runs like a top and has a squeaky clean tail pipe. My Jeeps tail pipe was black dark and sooty looking.
I am still getting 17 mpg for those wondering. (A little below my average before of 18-19) And that could be because I have been driving mountainous roads and foot heavy on the skinny peddle.
My Jeep Isn't popping a code or check engine light so I hope the dealer will even give me the time of day.


Stay tuned.......
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Unread 02-23-2012, 03:45 AM   #116
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I am Rivet Good Luck
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Unread 02-23-2012, 10:46 AM   #117
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What happens to microscopic particles? Well, basically, if they're smaller than the oil filter will capture and in the oil, they act more like tiny ball bearings than like sandpaper, they're too small to get caught in gaps in the engine and be dragged along and score or wear things. When talking about wear metals from aluminum bores it's even more silly to think about where the metal goes -- from the viewpoint of bearings and rings in steel bores and steel camshafts and such, aluminum has basically the hardness of soap, all that happens is that it serves as a lubricant helping keep the steel bits apart. Same principle as using walnut beads to clean heads, i.e., the walnut beads are so much softer than steel that they can't cause any damage to the actual head, they'll just remove any oxidation, carbon buildups, etc.

I've run magnetic oil plugs in a number of my vehicles to hopefully catch broken doohickeys before they get a chance to do much damage. In every single one of them the magnetic oil plug ended up with an oil-metal sludge on it (wipe it off with a shop rag, and it's *shiny*). One of those engines was a Chevrolet LS, a design notable for its durability and long interval between rebuilds. I don't run magnetic oil plugs anymore because they were more damaging to my mental health than the microscopic particles were to the engines and I never caught anything big enough to cause damage with them.

Lots of freakouts going on here making it hard for those who do have real problems to get help. The suggestion about a leakdown test by an independent mechanic if you're worried about your engine being "tappy" is a good one. As for me, I did listen closely to my engine and yes, it *does* make a "tappy" noise at idle, on *both* sides (but on the passenger side all the plastic from the airbox and battery box muffles it a bit). But I can't hear it with the hood closed. Personally, I'm not going to worry about it. This is a hot cam (steep slopes to hold valves open as long as possible before dropping them off) with strong valve springs and every valve train with a hot cam is noisy (the point of the VVT is to eliminate the down-low lump-a-lump and torque hole of a classic hot cam engine). As long as I can't hear it with the hood closed it's normal, because that's the design parameters that noise/vibration engineers use when designing the sound deadening -- if it wasn't normal, they wouldn't have added sufficient sound deadening to eliminate hearing it outside the engine compartment, because sound deadening is heavy and expensive and using as little as possible is the goal. Modern aluminum engines make all sorts of grinding tapping whirring noises that the old iron engines damped out -- you should have heard some of the motorcycles I owned over the years, you woulda thought their engines were disintegrating in place! But that's just how they sounded, right off the showroom floor. Which is one reason why I buy new vehicles if I can afford them -- so I can tell when a *different* noise happens, because it's only the *different* noises (the ones that don't exist on a brand new vehicle) that are worth worrying about. So far so good, not a single one of my vehicles has disintegrated due to a noise it had when brand new off the showroom floor...
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Unread 02-23-2012, 12:49 PM   #118
Rivet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badtux View Post

SNIP
Which is one reason why I buy new vehicles if I can afford them -- so I can tell when a *different* noise happens, because it's only the *different* noises (the ones that don't exist on a brand new vehicle) that are worth worrying about. So far so good, not a single one of my vehicles has disintegrated due to a noise it had when brand new off the showroom floor...

Well I for one can assure you that for me it was a *different* noise as my Pentastar was quite as a mouse the day I picked it up. The ticking was/is NOT normal and got worse after I first noticed it.
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Unread 02-23-2012, 01:52 PM   #119
DavidJeep
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Hmmmmmm

Quote:
Originally Posted by badtux View Post
What happens to microscopic particles? Well, basically, if they're smaller than the oil filter will capture and in the oil, they act more like tiny ball bearings than like sandpaper, they're too small to get caught in gaps in the engine and be dragged along and score or wear things. When talking about wear metals from aluminum bores it's even more silly to think about where the metal goes -- from the viewpoint of bearings and rings in steel bores and steel camshafts and such, aluminum has basically the hardness of soap, all that happens is that it serves as a lubricant helping keep the steel bits apart. Same principle as using walnut beads to clean heads, i.e., the walnut beads are so much softer than steel that they can't cause any damage to the actual head, they'll just remove any oxidation, carbon buildups, etc.

I've run magnetic oil plugs in a number of my vehicles to hopefully catch broken doohickeys before they get a chance to do much damage. In every single one of them the magnetic oil plug ended up with an oil-metal sludge on it (wipe it off with a shop rag, and it's *shiny*). One of those engines was a Chevrolet LS, a design notable for its durability and long interval between rebuilds. I don't run magnetic oil plugs anymore because they were more damaging to my mental health than the microscopic particles were to the engines and I never caught anything big enough to cause damage with them.

Lots of freakouts going on here making it hard for those who do have real problems to get help. The suggestion about a leakdown test by an independent mechanic if you're worried about your engine being "tappy" is a good one. As for me, I did listen closely to my engine and yes, it *does* make a "tappy" noise at idle, on *both* sides (but on the passenger side all the plastic from the airbox and battery box muffles it a bit). But I can't hear it with the hood closed. Personally, I'm not going to worry about it. This is a hot cam (steep slopes to hold valves open as long as possible before dropping them off) with strong valve springs and every valve train with a hot cam is noisy (the point of the VVT is to eliminate the down-low lump-a-lump and torque hole of a classic hot cam engine). As long as I can't hear it with the hood closed it's normal, because that's the design parameters that noise/vibration engineers use when designing the sound deadening -- if it wasn't normal, they wouldn't have added sufficient sound deadening to eliminate hearing it outside the engine compartment, because sound deadening is heavy and expensive and using as little as possible is the goal. Modern aluminum engines make all sorts of grinding tapping whirring noises that the old iron engines damped out -- you should have heard some of the motorcycles I owned over the years, you woulda thought their engines were disintegrating in place! But that's just how they sounded, right off the showroom floor. Which is one reason why I buy new vehicles if I can afford them -- so I can tell when a *different* noise happens, because it's only the *different* noises (the ones that don't exist on a brand new vehicle) that are worth worrying about. So far so good, not a single one of my vehicles has disintegrated due to a noise it had when brand new off the showroom floor...
Ball Bearings ? Ah No ! Metal shards that do not go through the oil filter ( remember 80% doesn't )while the engine is operating so that 80% of the oil that is contaminated with the metal ( Aluminum AND STEEL ) can score bearing surfaces AND destroy the hydraulic VVT cam positioners among many other items Now lets get into cleaniness when the engine head is removed by the mechanic LOL I have seen the inside of some of these dealer service areas AND worse I have seen the guys who work on these engines stop and take phone calls in the middle of a tear down or assembly ! I have seen these engines sit overnite without any plastic wrap ( or anything for that matter ) covering the torn down engine I agree with you on knowing the normal noise's YOUR engine makes and knowing when things sound different is important also YES Aluminum engines are noisey BUT it seems there is a problem with some of these engines and I believe when a cylinder head is falling apart into the engine it is time to tear down clean and inspect before slapping a new head back on and sending it down the road only to have problems again due to debris in the oil and it is lOOoong past warranty now !!! FIX IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME !!!!
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Unread 02-23-2012, 03:57 PM   #120
vonhef
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidJeep View Post
Ball Bearings ? Ah No ! Metal shards that do not go through the oil filter ( remember 80% doesn't )while the engine is operating so that 80% of the oil that is contaminated with the metal ( Aluminum AND STEEL ) can score bearing surfaces AND destroy the hydraulic VVT cam positioners among many other items.... !!!!
I don't know what you are trying to say with the 80%??? I do know that 100% of the oil that lubricates the bearings, lifters and such flows through the oil filter before it touches them.
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