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Unread 10-09-2012, 05:13 AM   #601
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badtux View Post
Ah yes, that mythical 2012 service manual that we mere peon end users don't get to see. Thanks for... something.
You can see it, but you don't want to pay to see it.

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Unread 10-09-2012, 08:58 AM   #602
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You can see it, but you don't want to pay to see it.
Considering the subscription's price, I think it's perfectly understandable. This will be the first vehicle I've ever had that I didn't actually have a copy of in my possession. This was a dick move by Jeep, no question.
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Unread 10-09-2012, 09:08 AM   #603
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Originally Posted by Godholio View Post
Considering the subscription's price, I think it's perfectly understandable. This will be the first vehicle I've ever had that I didn't actually have a copy of in my possession. This was a dick move by Jeep, no question.

I want a copy of the service manual. I don't understand the secretive nature Jeep has about this. Every car I've owned I've been able to purchase a service manual for a reasonable price.
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Unread 10-09-2012, 09:17 AM   #604
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Originally Posted by JeepCares View Post
You can see it, but you don't want to pay to see it.
Correction: I can pay to see it for *ALL* Chiseler Corporation cars -- for $1,999/year. If it was available for something reasonable for *MY* Chiseler Corporation car, I would be all down and wiggy with that. But I don't care about the maintenance information for a 2010 Dodge Caravan, or a 2011 Chrysler 300, or any other car, and I certainly am not going to pay $1,999/year for the privilege of having access to info about cars that I, duh, *DO NOT OWN*.
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Unread 10-09-2012, 09:24 AM   #605
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I want a copy of the service manual. I don't understand the secretive nature Jeep has about this.
It's not a secretive nature. Nobody publishes paper service manuals anymore (well, maybe GM does, but they're still stone age), it's all electronic now, generally an online service, so there simply isn't a paper thingy to buy. Thing is, car companies like Hyundai put this online service on the Internet for free or for a reasonable price so that their customers can get service information to work on their own cars, while Chiseler Corporation doesn't do that. Which I wouldn't mind if they had a way for me to buy a subscription to view their service information for my own personal individual Jeep, but Chiseler Corporation has no -- zero -- plan for individual Jeep owners to buy a subscription for their own individual Jeep for a price similar to what the old paper service manual cost. Because Chiseler Corporation doesn't want us working on our cars, they want us to take our cars to the dealership.
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Unread 10-09-2012, 09:48 AM   #606
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My last car, a Volkswagen, had the option of a paper manual or an electronic one. Thing was, the electronic one was on CD/DVD so you didn't require Internet connectivity except for updates.
It was about $200, but at least I had a service manual!
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Unread 10-09-2012, 11:55 AM   #607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badtux View Post
It's not a secretive nature. Nobody publishes paper service manuals anymore (well, maybe GM does, but they're still stone age), it's all electronic now, generally an online service, so there simply isn't a paper thingy to buy. Thing is, car companies like Hyundai put this online service on the Internet for free or for a reasonable price so that their customers can get service information to work on their own cars, while Chiseler Corporation doesn't do that. Which I wouldn't mind if they had a way for me to buy a subscription to view their service information for my own personal individual Jeep, but Chiseler Corporation has no -- zero -- plan for individual Jeep owners to buy a subscription for their own individual Jeep for a price similar to what the old paper service manual cost. Because Chiseler Corporation doesn't want us working on our cars, they want us to take our cars to the dealership.
I've got Chevy and Ford manuals on cd. I don't need a book (although I have the assembly manual for a '66 Corvette in hardcopy).

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My last car, a Volkswagen, had the option of a paper manual or an electronic one. Thing was, the electronic one was on CD/DVD so you didn't require Internet connectivity except for updates.
It was about $200, but at least I had a service manual!
I would absolutely pay $200 for it (I did for the Ford).
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Unread 10-09-2012, 02:30 PM   #608
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I've got Chevy and Ford manuals on cd. I don't need a book (although I have the assembly manual for a '66 Corvette in hardcopy).

I would absolutely pay $200 for it (I did for the Ford).
Auto manufacturers are moving away from the CD model because CD's are so easy to pirate, alas. Blame all the cheapskates who go on eBay and buy a pirated copy for $9, or go on PirateBay and find a Torrent, rather than paying for the TSM. The online services have DRM and have some smarts in them to detect that you're running some sort of automated screen scraping program. But I do agree, I would cheerfully pay a price equivalent to buying a paper or CD FSM to have access to the Chrysler technical service data about *my* car (I don't care about data on any other car that Chrysler makes). For now, it appears that I have to wait until Chrysler agrees to let AllData DIY publish data about my car, and that's only a subset of the Chrysler documentation.
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Unread 10-09-2012, 05:27 PM   #609
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I'd pay $200 for a book, too. Gladly.

There's no way in hell I'm going to pay an inflated subscription fee for something I'll only need in a near-emergency situation. It would actually be cheaper for me to get ASE trained than pay for this.
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Unread 10-09-2012, 07:15 PM   #610
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Originally Posted by Godholio View Post
...This will be the first vehicle I've ever had that I didn't actually have a copy of in my possession. This was a dick move by Jeep, no question.
x2
There’s nothing like having a good old service manual on your bench when working on your Jeep; drivetrain chassis, dash and the list goes on. It just plain sucks, period.
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Unread 10-09-2012, 08:00 PM   #611
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That's just sad they cut corners and such an important thing
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Unread 10-10-2012, 06:14 AM   #612
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If someone is really stuck and can't get an answer in this forum, you can get a 3 day subscription to TechAuthority Online for $35.00.

Subscriptions provide access to:

Technical Service Bulletins & Recalls for domestic vehicles - 1992 to present.
Service Information for some 1995 and 1996 to present.
Wiring information for some 1995 and all 1996 to present.
Diagnostic information for some 1995 and all 1996 to present. NOTE: Diagnostics Info may be found within the Service Information Tab.
Body repair Information.
Vehicle controller reprogramming.
Training Materials.
Flash Matrix with Flash part numbers, part supercedance, recall, and calibration information.
Capability to download Flash files for updating controllers.
Ability to view JTEC, SBEC and FCC related OBD II information.
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Unread 10-10-2012, 07:26 AM   #613
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If someone is really stuck and can't get an answer in this forum, you can get a 3 day subscription to TechAuthority Online for $35.00.
And what we're saying is this sucks. I don't care if other companies follow suit, that doesn't make it ok. I don't care if 90% of the population doesn't even know how to change their own oil. I just swapped the transmission out of a 46-year old Corvette. You better believe it took me longer than 3 days and I used the hell out of the factory assembly manual.

Jeep is leaving the enthusiasts hanging, and it doesn't even gain them anything significant.
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Unread 10-10-2012, 07:31 AM   #614
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Originally Posted by Godholio View Post
And what we're saying is this sucks. I don't care if other companies follow suit, that doesn't make it ok. I don't care if 90% of the population doesn't even know how to change their own oil. I just swapped the transmission out of a 46-year old Corvette. You better believe it took me longer than 3 days and I used the hell out of the factory assembly manual.

Jeep is leaving the enthusiasts hanging, and it doesn't even gain them anything significant.
What he said! We are willing to pay a fair price for a manual - let us!
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Unread 10-10-2012, 08:20 AM   #615
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All I can do is pass on that people are still not happy. This is nothing new - it's been awhile since any new service manual was printed. It's not just Jeep - it's others in the company. Why the business decision was made, I don't know. Maybe they can't publish one at a fair price. Think e-books. Maybe no one wants to have to store all the printed manuals. Maybe it has to do with the necessity of using the computer anyway for programming/flashing. Do I personally think that there will be a paper FSM put out? No.
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