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Unread 12-10-2013, 03:52 AM   #46
krawler510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmshay6
Ha Ha Ha! Talk Out of your a . . errrr ear much? That comment is a true display of ignorance if I ever saw one! if it werent for the japanese, americans would still be building pushrod engines and vvt would be unheard of! they ate our lunch in the 80's and 90's for a reason!
Those push rod LS7s are definitely outdated.

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Unread 12-10-2013, 06:19 AM   #47
wmshay6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krawler510 View Post
Those push rod LS7s are definitely outdated.
Touche'. I'll give you that one, but it is a bit of a special case.

I still contend that for everyday, common use engines, OHC or DOHC can't be beat. The rev higher and allow for VVT which has emissions and efficiency implications in these days of increasing CAFE requirements and Greenie standards. Pushrod engines can make GOBS or torque- that's one of their key advantages. But for an every day grocery getter, not needed. Just look at the sedan and light SUV offerings from Ford, the General, and Chrysler.

Don't get me wrong, the venerable 4.2 (and later 4.0) in the Jeep line is a great engine. And it's a pushrod. I'm not knocking them.

But to say that the japanese only copy the designs of others is nonsense. OHC engines dominate the market for a reason. The tech works. And it was invented in the early 20th century, but made mainstream by Nissan and Honda. Likewise VVT has been around for ages. But refined and mainstreamed by Honda. They didn't invent the idea, but they did evolve it. And now it is in widespread use.

Now, back on topic- I plan to change my new 3.6 at 2500, again at 5000, then start synthetic changes every 5K.
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Unread 12-10-2013, 06:45 PM   #48
taoshum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cropduster23 View Post
I change my oil every 3k. My dad always did this and has had several vehicles make it well over 400k miles without any internal engine issues. I have a 1997 astro van that has in excess of 300k miles with no issues. While it may not be necessary to change every 3k in my 2012 Jeep, I figure that clean oil and a fresh filter certainly won't hurt. It costs me $21.74 to change my oil. Pretty cheap insurance if you ask me.
Cheap? $22 * 16 million new vehicles each year = ~ $500,000,000... not so cheap, plus the 24,000,000 gallons of oil for each oil change.
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Unread 12-10-2013, 07:16 PM   #49
715racing
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They didn't invent the idea, but they did evolve it.

Thank you for being a gentleman and helping prove my point. See, we DO agree.


Overhead cam engines have been around since the very early 1900's...and they sure wern't invented by the japs.

Have a nice night.
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Unread 12-11-2013, 10:43 AM   #50
fastfreddie
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I caught the smilie at the end of your Honda-bash. Otherwise, I may have been offended.

(not directed at you, 715racing).
I can't speak for the Japanese auto engines, but motorcycles, yes. Nearly 200bhp/liter on an everyday, no special maintenance, DD, warrantied engine. Can you imagine a Pentastar 3.6 with 720bhp, standard warranty and Schedula A maintenance?

As most of us know, today's car engines are understressed, designed to a market point and people wouldn't know what to do with themselves if cars came with a large herd of horses at the other end of the reins, not to mention that engine would prolly cost at least $50K.
So, we get what we get and we're told how to manage it. That, IMO, in no way subjugates me to follow their guidelines written for the masses.
"Oh, I've been driving with the red light on for a while now...What? I have to put oil in it?"

People are stupid. They need guidance...and the world of profit preys on their ignorance.
Individuals can be smart. They'll figure things out for themselves, like which oil to use and when.


So, there's nothing special about production automotive engines, they're not Formula 1 powerplants. Put any shelf oil in it that meets the MFGs specs, at the least, and keep it clean. That, and filter changes, is all that needs to be done for your engine to live long and prosper. Well, quality fuel is a plus as is minding your coolant.
If you want to use a specialized grade oil for cleaning, economy, etc., go for it. Just have it meet or exceed the MFGs specs to keep your warranty in good faith.

The bottom line is, simply, keep it clean! Dirty oil doesn't just wear on hard parts. It wears seals, clogs essential, seemingly unrelated passageways(PCVs), etc.
Once damage is done, it can be a slippery slope...

What does clean mean? It might be easier to answer, what does dirty mean?
Discolored from heat exposure is normal, black is not. Dump it and change the filter.

Mileage is a guideline.
5000 smooth-paved highway miles at cruising RPM vs 5000 dirt-tracked miles at slow speeds with high engine loading; take a stroll around Central Park vs hump 6 miles of the Appalachian Trail.
Which of those will you want/need to clean up after?

Okay, now my rant is done.
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Unread 12-11-2013, 11:28 AM   #51
715racing
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"fastfreddie"? Not THE Fast Freddie, I presume?
Back in the day, Mike Baldwin was (and still is) a very good friend of mine. That damn #19 was sooooo fast! Hard to catch, but sure couldn't hold his beer!

I raced Kawasakis and Suzukis back then (hence the 715racing), but certainly was not near their caliber. Had a lot of fun though, and my older Son won the Pa and New York snowmobile Championships ( hillclimb and grass drag) a few times using my old number. My younger Son starts hillclimbing this year...guess the number he picked?

As for oil...we used Amsoil in the sleds and bikes. Changed whenever we had time. Usually after each race weekend.

I know, has nothing to do with Jeeps. Sorry. Follow the manual, don't let it get too dirty or hot, enjoy life!
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Unread 12-11-2013, 10:01 PM   #52
fastfreddie
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Nah, not the fast one. I have raced with WERA a bit. Used AGIP through a Scotts filter on a Duc 996S...it was a while ago. Changed it a lot and also did oil analyses. Semi-Corse engine was wrapped a bit tight. Blew up at 600 miles if you didn't yank the heads, lap the valves and adjust the lash. Thing was a beast for its day.
Never an oil issue tho'. It pained me to dump it as often as I did but, between the shearing, high temps and extreme valvetrain loading, it got stressed quick.

I was wonderin' about your number, thinking it sounded bike related. Guess it takes one to know one. Good luck with your son's season!
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Unread 12-22-2013, 12:42 AM   #53
Joel1982
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I've been in the auto industry for years and I am also a Amsoil Dealer..

It is usually recommended Not to exceed 1600 Kms On break in before your first oil change.

From Experience I've learned 300-500kms is more beneficial
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Unread 12-22-2013, 07:27 AM   #54
jeepwrnglr92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rirrgang View Post
The manual has a lot of great info in it. You should take the time to go through it. I did think saying "check the manual" was also a very helpful thing to suggest to do. You may of not thought about it.

I changed my oil at 5k for the first time and every 10k after that with 5w-20 Mobile 1 and an extended Wix oil filter. I know the filter doesn't apply to the new Pentastar engine.
I just got my 2013 Jeep in October and have the DLR oil changes for 2 years.
All my other cars(Chevy Avalanche 150K + miles and Corvettes) I run Mobile 1 in with no issues. So I am pleased to see someone here is using it in the Pentastar engine as well with no issues.

I am trying to decide if I want to keep the free oil changes or just swap to mobile1

What did you mean by the comment "I know the filter doesn't apply to the new Pentastar engine"

No filter? I have not gotten under my Jeep to see what needs to be done as it's new and well i only have 1000 miles on it.

I am still trying to see if I want to change the oil now after reading this post.
I may wait for at least 3k.

My wife Ford (yes I said that word) is a lease vehicle and they tell us that it has to be 10K or when the light comes on.
Leasing company says we have to take to a dlr too or some other approved service center. We have 28K on it and we got it a year ago. Ill be glad when its gone. But that's a different story .
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Unread 12-22-2013, 08:37 AM   #55
Jiblet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepwrnglr92
I have not gotten under my Jeep to see what needs to be done.... .
The 3.6 engines have the filter topside, not underneath.
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Unread 12-22-2013, 12:24 PM   #56
BruceM1964
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This is the filter after 800 miles on a new engine, The white specks are all metal shavings. As you can see there is quit a bit of it in there and these pics really didn't show how much was really in there, the pics kind of washed out. Anyone that says there is no need to change the oil and filter after a break in period is full of hooey.


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Unread 12-22-2013, 06:25 PM   #57
pentastarguy
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you are showing the filter is doing its job getting the particles out of the engine. not showing the need to change oil much before 3000 miles or so.
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Unread 12-29-2013, 08:14 AM   #58
jeepwrnglr92
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My dlr said 6 months or 5000 miles even on the break in oil. I'm gonna do mine soon.

Just have to find the correct filter. No one seems to stock it yet. May be a dlr item at least for the first oil change.

Dlr did caution me to get the correct one for a 2013 . The 2014 one won't work at they changed it.

He also said it is only the left head that has the issues and changing to synthetic would t void or prevent this from happenkng.
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Unread 01-21-2014, 07:01 AM   #59
jeepwrnglr92
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So at 1400 miles I had my oil changed this weekend. I asked to keep the filter and sure enough there were shiny mettle bits in the filter material.
Dlr also said Mobil1 is fine in the 3.6 engine. Not issues with swapping it out. Just to keep with the same rated oil.
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Unread 01-21-2014, 11:20 AM   #60
Cropduster23
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Mobil 1 is surely more than fine, however, it is important to note that it currently does not meet the outrageous requirements ofChrysler MS-6395. If you ever had an issue in the future, the warranty COULD be voided because of the use of a non approved oil. I think Mobil 1 is one of the beat oils available, just giving you a heads up about the reality of the situation.
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