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Unread 12-04-2013, 07:44 PM   #16
MyJKU14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiblet
Pretty clearly states in the maintenance schedule section page 632 to follow the OCI but not to exceed 10k/1yr.
Yeah I stated that's all I found in an earlier post... Problem is the computer says to change at 5k and on a new car that seemed a little long.

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Unread 12-04-2013, 09:26 PM   #17
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I would be really careful about assuming the dealer knows what they're talking about regarding ANYTHING about your jeep! Just my opinion of course.
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Unread 12-04-2013, 09:28 PM   #18
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i usually change my oil 4 times a a year, at the change of each season
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Unread 12-05-2013, 05:12 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyJKU14 View Post
Yeah I stated that's all I found in an earlier post... Problem is the computer says to change at 5k and on a new car that seemed a little long.


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A famous Indy champion, friend and neighbor of mine never changes oil once he starts using synthetic...he only changes the filters and then tops off!
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Unread 12-05-2013, 08:28 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1222 View Post
Donít know if youíre being sarcastic or not but either way just how long would it take for you to insert the cd into your computer, 3-4 seconds?
Followed by a copy of the pdf to the ol smart phone...
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Unread 12-05-2013, 09:01 AM   #21
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If you REALLY want to get into engineering, a filter is LEAST efficient at removing contamination when it is brand new. So the more often you change your filter, the more contamination passes in the oil vs letting the filter load up over a normal change interval. Which means your filter is the MOST efficient right as you are getting ready to pull it off and swap out a new element.
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Unread 12-05-2013, 09:23 AM   #22
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My 12 I changed first oil at 600. It ticked and had head replaced at 15,000. My 13 I have 3000 on and still no tick. Ill change oil when the light comes on. Yes, I know, I know.... But if it works....
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Unread 12-05-2013, 09:25 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastfreddie View Post
I change the oil on my new vehicles as soon as they get home.
Ever seen what a lava lamp looks like? That's what the oil looks like when it comes out...all kinds of metallic, psychedelic art.
Next oil change happens within a couple hundred miles, rings are seated, etc.
Finally, synthetic between 600-1000 miles and then I follow a Schedule B plan.
So that 20.00 pint of break in assembly lube they assemble the engine with - which needs about 5 engine hours and a few heat cycles to fully work into the pores of the cast iron parts is wasted on their part? 18 million units times 20.00 vs 18 million times a cup of whatever oil is handy is how much money???

gee how stupid are Chrysler's (and every other manufacturer) engineers. You got it all figured out and show THEM guys huh...

Sorry I've seen way to many high mileage bearing journals and compared too many under a surface scope to NOT run it at least 500 miles on the break in juice before changing. And even THAT isn't necessary with a roller cam - you can run its build oil until regular interval. Flat tappet? Yep better change it at 500 if ya want that cam to stay nice and bumpy for 75k or more!!!
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Unread 12-05-2013, 09:55 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajaxxx View Post
If you REALLY want to get into engineering, a filter is LEAST efficient at removing contamination when it is brand new. So the more often you change your filter, the more contamination passes in the oil vs letting the filter load up over a normal change interval. Which means your filter is the MOST efficient right as you are getting ready to pull it off and swap out a new element.
Depends on the filter.

Paper filter MFGs can argue that their filter takes out particles down to 10 microns, which can be true, but they don't tell you that the imprecise structure of the paper "mesh" also allows particles up to 90 microns to pass freely.

You're post seems to suggest an extended filter change schedule is better. It may not be.
As the smaller filtering passageways get clogged with trapped particles, oil has fewer passageways to flow through and the oil that does flow is going through passageways larger than the size of particle you want to trap. Consequently, you're just pumping dirty oil at a reduced flow rate. The potential to oil starve your engine or blowout the paper element increases with the length of time it is in use.

Where's the golden break-even point for a filter change? FIIK. I'm sure it's as variable as the number of filters available, but it's most definitely important to do the first one ASAP. All the larger bits and pieces left over from the engine's manufacturing processes will be in that first filter reducing its ability to properly do its job. Don't think those things are put together in a sterile lab environment, let alone spotlessly cleaned prior to assembly.
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Unread 12-05-2013, 10:21 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwmbishop View Post
So that 20.00 pint of break in assembly lube they assemble the engine with - which needs about 5 engine hours and a few heat cycles to fully work into the pores of the cast iron parts is wasted on their part? 18 million units times 20.00 vs 18 million times a cup of whatever oil is handy is how much money???

gee how stupid are Chrysler's (and every other manufacturer) engineers. You got it all figured out and show THEM guys huh...

Sorry I've seen way to many high mileage bearing journals and compared too many under a surface scope to NOT run it at least 500 miles on the break in juice before changing. And even THAT isn't necessary with a roller cam - you can run its build oil until regular interval. Flat tappet? Yep better change it at 500 if ya want that cam to stay nice and bumpy for 75k or more!!!
I can't tell if you're talking about two different things. Assembly lube will have been washed away and diluted after having served its purpose, the first start-up. If by "break in juice" you mean a "break-in oil", there's no way it should be run for the amount of time the factory is telling its customers is an appropriate interval for the first oil change.

If people want to run a break-in oil, it's available over-the-counter. With today's manufacturing tolerances and materials, maybe you've seen a difference in whatever the MFGs put in that first load of oil but if it's a "true" break-in oil it needs to be dumped long before 500 miles.

Like a lot of things on vehicles or anything else of a technical nature, the engineers gotta think about the lowest common denominator, stupid customers. That doesn't mean smart customers can't elevate themselves above the mediocrity.
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Unread 12-05-2013, 01:52 PM   #26
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don't forget about changing the turn signal oil every third oil change !
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Unread 12-05-2013, 04:15 PM   #27
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I really donít understand all the paranoid thinking of changing the oil for the first time. Todayís engines are so far advanced in the makeup of materials and design that the old school thinking of oil changes has gone the route of the dinosaurs. Just follow the manufactures recommended advice and all will be fine. Donít over think it.
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Unread 12-05-2013, 04:42 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastfreddie View Post
I can't tell if you're talking about two different things. Assembly lube will have been washed away and diluted after having served its purpose, the first start-up. If by "break in juice" you mean a "break-in oil", there's no way it should be run for the amount of time the factory is telling its customers is an appropriate interval for the first oil change.

If people want to run a break-in oil, it's available over-the-counter. With today's manufacturing tolerances and materials, maybe you've seen a difference in whatever the MFGs put in that first load of oil but if it's a "true" break-in oil it needs to be dumped long before 500 miles.

Like a lot of things on vehicles or anything else of a technical nature, the engineers gotta think about the lowest common denominator, stupid customers. That doesn't mean smart customers can't elevate themselves above the mediocrity.
Let me clarify breakin juice. When you prelube it coats the rending and porosity of the cast iron that has been work altered (cast iron does not work harden like for example bronze - it work SOFTENS when cutting it at a couple thousandths in a pass) - leaving as much as .3 micron pieces that will eventually break off when ran (the normal breakin residue the filter picks up) washing pre assembly can not remove all of the surface machining residue. The assembly lube and break in oil should work together filling the gaps between the peaks microscopically (about .5 microns avg) - pre assembly lube SHOULD slowly come away and NOT wash away all at once as the boundary layer of the oil should wash over it and erode the re away slowly so as to have the smallest particulation possible. - that way the peaks of the surface dont chip - they slowly erode down in sharpness at the same time - over the break in period. AND it should wash slowly so as not to "chunk up" or coagulate (many big name builders through the 70s used lithium\moly before it was proven it didn't just let the peaks erode but actively continue the rending effect for as much as 25 engine hours before the lube got hot enough to dilute into the oil - bringing 7 micron contamination in large clumps of grease (large compared to the no chunks in the oil). Prelube and break in oil combined make up the breakin juice - changing either changes the bearing journal final finish, not as much as lifter face to cam lobe... but bearing journal life is definitely shortened by washing the pre-lube off too soon (in older engines BECAUSE of the flat tappets).

Todays rollers it doesn't matter enough to worry - 3000 for first is fine. But you STILL want the break in to lay a nice closure to the machining! The breakin on a top fuel crankshaft is a very meticulous process - it includes NO LOAD break in - the assembly is driven by an external motor for a desiginated time - washed inspected and some times repeated!
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Unread 12-05-2013, 08:46 PM   #29
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Quote from an interview with president of Blackstone Labs

Q. When you buy a new car, change your oil at 3,000 miles to remove metal particles from the engine break-in process. Myth?

A. There might be a grain of truth to this, according to the experts at Blackstone. Oil samples from engines during the first 3,000 miles of driving show elevated "wear-in" metal levels, coming from the pistons and camshafts, says Ryan Stark, Blackstone's president. But he added, "To me, it doesn't make that much difference because if the filings are big enough to cause damage, they will be taken out by the oil filter."

However, a Honda spokesman says its cars come from the factory with a special oil formulation for the break-in period. Honda advises owners to not change the oil early. Stark said Blackstone Laboratories' test of Honda's break-in oil shows it contains molybdenum-disulfide, an anti-wear additive. But Stark said Honda is the only manufacturer he knows that's using special break-in oil. The take-away? If there are any special break-in recommendations from the manufacturer, follow them. And consider analyzing the oil at 3,000 miles.
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Unread 12-05-2013, 09:33 PM   #30
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That's because honda knows nothing about engines. All they know how to do is copy others designs...like all the other jap manufacturers. They design nothing, but they love to copy, change it a teeny tiny little bit, then claim it as their own.

Soapbox over.

I believe now-a-days, it is smartest to follow the vehicle manufacturers recommendation. Keep records, document every oil change and other maintenance, and enjoy your Jeep.

I had 246,000 miles on the original 4.0 in my '94 stick (from the factory) Grand Cherokee, and it still ran great. And 153,000 on a Liberty Diesel, with zero engine problems on either one. Followed the manuals, changed the oil when they said to, and used what Jeep recommended.

That's exactly what I am going to do with my '13 Rubicon, and expect to get a hell of a lot of miles with no engine problems.

Sometimes over-thinking things will get ya into trouble.
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