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Unread 05-31-2013, 05:10 AM   #16
Deuskid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yendor View Post
When the Mustangs came out with the Getrag MT82, in the `11 model year, they had a few stinkers. My `13 with the MT82, manual, and I get along great.

I'm throwing caution to the wind and ordering a manual in the Jeep also. Hopefully, if there were any real problems, Chrysler has them worked out by now.

There just isn't enough going on in an automatic transmission vehicle to keep me interested.
I forgot to add a hard-top to my earlier list as what I'm ordering.

I've seen a few threads in this forum about throw out bearings failing before the/ around the 50k mile mark. If a tranny repair is required that early in the life of a Jeep I don't see the value of not spending the same amount up front and avoid the problem.

I drove both an auto and a manual a few weeks ago and the manual didn't strike me as particularly good or bad, just another truck manual.

Have you driven a manual yet?

Thanks,

John

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Unread 05-31-2013, 05:18 AM   #17
Monkeybomber
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborne Lee View Post
2013's have an open diff or LSD option or locker. if you do not get the LSD option you still have traction control with the breaks. The LSD is included with the Max tow option along with the 3.73. I checked last Saturday and 2014 options are not released yet. Having had two Grand Cherokee's one with LSD and one without, I can tell you I am a MASSIVE fan of Jeep LS diff's. (But now I have LOCKERS!) WHEEEEEEEEE
Not trying to call you out but do you have a source for this? As far as I'm aware the max tow package includes the following:
Class II reciever hitch
4 pin lighting
3.73 gearing

No LSD. I remember thinking about buying the LSD, and ultimatley decided against it, and I'm glad I did. I've done a decent amount of light offroading now with the jeep completely stock, and it was just fine. The downside to the LSD is that as it has a clutch pack, it WILL eventually wear out. It comes down to 2 scenarios in my mind

1. You do serious offroading. The LSD isn't enough to handle it so you swap in detroits. You wasted money.

2. You don't do serious offroading. You wasted money. The jeep stock with the trac-loc system will be able to handle most anything thrown your way.

My .02
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Unread 05-31-2013, 09:56 AM   #18
Deuskid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkeybomber View Post
Not trying to call you out but do you have a source for this? As far as I'm aware the max tow package includes the following:
Class II reciever hitch
4 pin lighting
3.73 gearing

No LSD. I remember thinking about buying the LSD, and ultimatley decided against it, and I'm glad I did. I've done a decent amount of light offroading now with the jeep completely stock, and it was just fine. The downside to the LSD is that as it has a clutch pack, it WILL eventually wear out. It comes down to 2 scenarios in my mind

1. You do serious offroading. The LSD isn't enough to handle it so you swap in detroits. You wasted money.

2. You don't do serious offroading. You wasted money. The jeep stock with the trac-loc system will be able to handle most anything thrown your way.

My .02
Your profile says you haul a boat.... how big is it?

Also, do you have an auto or manual tranny?

Your post has me conflicted, now have one guy saying LSD is worth it and you saying, 'not so much'.

Would welcome more opinions.

Thanks,

John
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Unread 05-31-2013, 10:01 AM   #19
starscream
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Trac-Lok *IS* the LSD Option. That's what it's called. If you don't have the LSD you don't have Trac-Lok. It makes zero sense to hear people say things like "you don't need the LSD since Trac-Lok is fine." I'll say it once again, if you don't get the LSD, you don't have Trac-Lok.

The system that comes on every Jeep regardless, is known as BLD - "Brake Lock Differential". Do not confuse that with Trac-Lok, it is not the same thing.
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Unread 05-31-2013, 10:09 AM   #20
jwmbishop
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Originally Posted by starscream View Post
Trac-Lok *IS* the LSD Option. That's what it's called. If you don't have the LSD you don't have Trac-Lok. It makes zero sense to hear people say things like "you don't need the LSD since Trac-Lok is fine." I'll say it once again, if you don't get the LSD, you don't have Trac-Lok.

The system that comes on every Jeep regardless, is known as BLD - "Brake Lock Differential". Do not confuse that with Trac-Lok, it is not the same thing.


Or does it have Positraction? How about TruLock? EquaLock? SureGrip? SafeTTrac?

Just like TracLok they are all registered trademarks for LSD diffs....

Mines a Rubi so if it was LSD (which of course elect lockers can not be) it would have EDiff (Ferrari's LSD) - get it?

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Unread 05-31-2013, 10:18 AM   #21
starscream
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwmbishop View Post
Mines a Rubi so if it was LSD (which of course elect lockers can not be)
Don't forget the TJ Rubi had an air locker plus mechanical LSD all-in-one.. Uber-lok?
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Unread 05-31-2013, 12:06 PM   #22
Yendor
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Brake lock will apply brake to the wheel that has little or no traction, which gets the wheel with traction to turn.

A limited slip differential (call it whatever you want) will have both wheels spinning.

You can watch the little videos on the Jeep/Chrysler site. It explains it pretty well.

Not a big difference it the real world, but given the choice, I'll take a LSD, thank you.

DKid, I'm not too worried about throw out bearings just because a few guys here have had problems. Some guys are pretty hard on their Jeeps, which is cool, but thats just not me. And as far as aftermarket rear ends being better, No doubt. But I'm just not that into it. Like DKid, my jeep is going to be a daily driver and moderate off road duty. Factory stuff will be plenty stout for what I'm going to do.

The 2 Jeeps I drove were both manuals. I thought they shifted very nicely. But yeah, it's a light duty truck tranny. One was the 3.21 and the other a 3.73. Very noticable difference. I won't have a 3.21. I've never driven an automatic. Not real interested.

* the "5 speed" automatic in my Ram Hemi is just a 4 speed in which 2nd gear locks up. <Kind of a rip off.
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Unread 05-31-2013, 12:22 PM   #23
Monkeybomber
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starscream View Post
Trac-Lok *IS* the LSD Option. That's what it's called. If you don't have the LSD you don't have Trac-Lok. It makes zero sense to hear people say things like "you don't need the LSD since Trac-Lok is fine." I'll say it once again, if you don't get the LSD, you don't have Trac-Lok.

The system that comes on every Jeep regardless, is known as BLD - "Brake Lock Differential". Do not confuse that with Trac-Lok, it is not the same thing.
Apologies. I was shooting from the hip and got the two mixed up, which, as you describe in later posts, is very easy to do given all the terms out there.

Replace where I say "trac-loc" with "brake lock differential", but the overall tone of my post is the same. The LSD isn't worth it IMO. You'll still fall into one of two categories, heavy offroader or lite offroader. For a lite offroader, the LSD is complete overkill, a stock jeep in 4 wheel drive can handle pretty much any trail/dirt road/ field/ beach. So you're just wasting $300.

For a serious offroader- just get actual lockers. You've still wasted $300

Deuskid- I tow a 2000lb boat pretty frequently with a stick shift, It's fairly easy to tow with a stick. Honestly, the most difficult part is reversing with the trailer. With an automatic, you can just leave it in reverse and hit the brakes to adjust your speed, in a stick shift, you'll stall your car out unless you're constantly working the clutch.

Yes it feels like you're shifting a truck. Not a bad shifter, though maybe a little clunky. I still enjoy it though.
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Unread 05-31-2013, 02:05 PM   #24
starscream
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Trac-Lok doesn't have to be for off-road only. There are people out there who swear that Trac-Lok plus BLD is way better than just BLD alone when driving in snowy or rainy conditions on the road.
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Unread 06-01-2013, 06:30 AM   #25
Monkeybomber
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I'll concede that it might be useful there, if only because obviously i have zero experience driving a LSD jeep in the snow. That said, I've now driven my jeep through a boston/ new jersey winter and I'll say that i never really felt like its snow capabilities were ever really even a question. Hell, one night I was driving west to PA in a blizzard and i passed at least four cars which had gone off the side of the road. Most of the highway was unplowed. Still made it there just fine.
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Unread 06-01-2013, 06:53 AM   #26
Deuskid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yendor View Post

The 2 Jeeps I drove were both manuals. I thought they shifted very nicely. But yeah, it's a light duty truck tranny. One was the 3.21 and the other a 3.73. Very noticable difference. I won't have a 3.21. I've never driven an automatic. Not real interested.

* the "5 speed" automatic in my Ram Hemi is just a 4 speed in which 2nd gear locks up. <Kind of a rip off.
I drove 2 jeeps, both 3.21's... one auto and one manual. It was all the dealer had available I already decided that I was getting a 3.73. Maybe I'd appreciate the manual in the 3.73. It did not impress in the 3.21.

John
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Unread 06-01-2013, 06:59 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by starscream View Post
Trac-Lok doesn't have to be for off-road only. There are people out there who swear that Trac-Lok plus BLD is way better than just BLD alone when driving in snowy or rainy conditions on the road.
Sorry for my confusion but want to confirm:

trac-Loc is the trade name for LSD

and

BLD = Brake lock differential [which is standard and a simpler, more mechanical traction control system].

So many letters, such a pea brain .

Also, your post indicates that LSD is added to BLD doesn't over-ride it. Jeep adds the LSD but the BLD remains on and active on the jeep when LSD is added as an option and that they are complimentary?

Thanks,

John
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Unread 06-01-2013, 07:05 AM   #28
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'06 lj
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Unread 06-01-2013, 07:25 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by starscream View Post
Don't forget the TJ Rubi had an air locker plus mechanical LSD all-in-one.. Uber-lok?
My ECTED works as an electric locker and a LSD...
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