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Unread 09-19-2006, 09:56 PM   #61
tplochar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblaine
Alright then, how about me, can I play? I've wheeled the stock JK on Cadillac Hill a few times, (several actually) and there's not a single thing a stock 06 Rubi can do that the Stock 07 JK can't do better, smoother, easier, or with more grace on the trail.

I was fortunate enough to drive them back to back for A/B comparisons in a short time span so the impressions both made were easy to compare.

To be equivalent, you will need to outfit the 06 with a fly by wire throttle, larger tires, remote swaybar disconnect, different seats with height adjustability and a med length arm suspension as well as some additional lift. That would just be to get even and that still makes it a modded TJ.
The poster that I quoted tried to say a stock JK could out wheel a modded TJ. Not only do I find this to be extremely unlikely but I think one vehicle could not dominate the other in all aspects. I'm not bashing the JK, just saying that I'm reserving my opinion on it until I drive it or at least see it perform on a trail. Until then a modded TJ would be my choice over a stock JK. I already know what a stock and modded TJ can do, if a stock JK could out-wheel a modded TJ I'm sure DC won't have to worry one bit about selling these babies as they will move themselves.

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Unread 09-19-2006, 10:53 PM   #62
Karamba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tplochar
The poster that I quoted tried to say a stock JK could out wheel a modded TJ. Not only do I find this to be extremely unlikely but I think one vehicle could not dominate the other in all aspects. I'm not bashing the JK, just saying that I'm reserving my opinion on it until I drive it or at least see it perform on a trail. Until then a modded TJ would be my choice over a stock JK. I already know what a stock and modded TJ can do, if a stock JK could out-wheel a modded TJ I'm sure DC won't have to worry one bit about selling these babies as they will move themselves.
I guess it all depends on the definition of "modded" and what trim we are comparing. Let's not talk about a build up monster.

For a mild "mod" - ~3" lift, 31"-33" tires etc., the kind of stuff you have, judging from purely theoretical evaluation, stock JK should outwheel it.
It already has this tires/geometry and better articulation.
For any TJ with open diffs - brake actuated limited slip on even the most basic JK will be quite a boon (judging from performance of similar systems on other vehicles, and from first reviews of it on the JK. And this system is easier to control then lockers in many situations - easier to steer - not a subsitute for lockers, but JK got those too.
Better fording.
And modded TJ will be almost as wide (due to extra backspacing to fit wider tires - it adds about 5", right?).
Electronic disconnect on Rubicon - better then manual, as you can hook it back up on off-camber stuff.


Of course this is a theoretical penis measuring contest, and JK and TJ owners will just meet on the trail and break both..
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Unread 09-19-2006, 11:05 PM   #63
Jeeples
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karamba
And modded TJ will be almost as wide (due to extra backspacing to fit wider tires - it adds about 5", right?).


Maybe if you were running full width axles...on my YJ with 3.75" backspacing (which is the most common BS to run a SWB Jeep), the wheel and tire sticks out less than 2" from the flare.
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Unread 09-19-2006, 11:08 PM   #64
Karamba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeples
Maybe if you were running full width axles...on my YJ with 3.75" backspacing (which is the most common BS to run a SWB Jeep), the wheel and tire sticks out less than 2" from the flare.
On both sides, right?

There was a computation somewhere on this forum, that a typical setup to run 32"x10.5" makes TJ exactly as wide as a stock JK... It looked accurate - though I guess one would need to double check on a real setup..
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Unread 09-19-2006, 11:14 PM   #65
Jeeples
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karamba
On both sides, right?

No, only on the one side, since I bought the other 2 wheels with stock backspacing


I see your point, but on a 15x8" wheel, running 3.75 BS running a 32x11.50, you're still about 1.5" narrower than a JK. Not to mention that the sidewalls will have some give to them which will help compensate a bit for the added width.

1.5" isn't much of a difference, but once you get different BS wheels on a JK, there will obviously be a bigger difference in widths.
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Unread 09-20-2006, 07:52 AM   #66
ieatchickens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Border Dave
I'm pretty sure a JK will outwheel most modded TJ's, too.
I will take this bet!

You get a 2wd JK and I will get a TJ Rubicon model and lets see who out wheels the other!

PS Shoot me if you like but I actually like the TJ much better. (my opinion which you cannot change) The JK is okay but I think Jeep is straying a bit from the small nimble 4wd to some kind of Hummer wannabe. Power windows?
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Unread 09-20-2006, 08:19 AM   #67
wrnglrguy
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You know what I think, I think that there are now 2 different kinds of Jeep owners; those who are off-road enthusiasts, and those who just like the way the Wrangler looks driving down the coast with the top down and doors off. There is obviously a market for the JK epsecially the Unlimited. The fact is, the JK has been designed and built and is now hitting the dealers. I personally prefer the TJ, but I would imagine that the day will come when it is time to buy a new Jeep, the JK. If JK owners end up being like other Jeeps owners (CJ, YJ, TJ), then the Jeep will be moded or "built" to the owners preference anyways. No 2 Jeeps are alike. I suppose that all of this b**ching will most likely get the aftermarket guys to work though. I have seen there are in fact already aftermarket mods out there for the JK. Maybe someone will make an aftermarket grill for those who prefer metal to plastic. I personally do not care one way or the other as for the material the grill is made out of. The only thing I use my grill for is to get air to the radiator. The 1 complaint I do have about the grill is that it does look an awful lot like the Liberty. Would have been nice to make it slightly different in style.
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Unread 09-20-2006, 08:23 AM   #68
LEDFoot
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Power windows are OPTIONAL people.. OPTIONAL, do you grasp that concept.
Personally I think that for the people who use their jeep as a daily driver the power windows is a God-sent.
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Unread 09-20-2006, 09:04 AM   #69
buddastrat
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Till it goes out in a rain/snow storm. I know several people that's happened too.


I agree it's just an option, but then again abortion is an option too, doesn't make it right.
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Unread 09-20-2006, 10:32 AM   #70
LEDFoot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddastrat
Till it goes out in a rain/snow storm. I know several people that's happened too.


I agree it's just an option, but then again abortion is an option too, doesn't make it right.

Lol... because power windows is a new, completely untested technology. No other cars are ever out in a rain or snow storm... Definately no convertibles...
Come to think of it... I'm pissed at jeep for even putting an electrical system in the car... Or seats that move, they are just waiting to break, I know several people that's happened to.
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Unread 09-20-2006, 10:44 AM   #71
SCouch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEDFoot
Lol... because power windows is a new, completely untested technology. No other cars are ever out in a rain or snow storm... Definately no convertibles...
Come to think of it... I'm pissed at jeep for even putting an electrical system in the car... Or seats that move, they are just waiting to break, I know several people that's happened to.
I'm still pissed about the electric starter motor and the windshield wipers!!

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Unread 09-20-2006, 10:45 AM   #72
SCouch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrnglrguy
You know what I think, I think that there are now 2 different kinds of Jeep owners; those who are off-road enthusiasts, and those who just like the way the Wrangler looks driving down the coast with the top down and doors off.
There is also a 3rd, the one that does both!
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Unread 09-20-2006, 10:53 AM   #73
LEDFoot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCouch
I'm still pissed about the electric starter motor and the windshield wipers!!

I know... my starter broke, and it wasn't even in a snow/rain storm... it just broke... I was so pissed, I couldn't even start my jeep... Now if I had had a hand crank I would have been so much better off.

I actually had an old Opel once where the windshield wipers were driven by the engine vacuum. Now while I consider the vacuum system in cars to be modern junk, it was so much better than these new electric piece of crap they put on cars nowadays.
They were even speed sensitive (the faster I drove the slower they would wipe) it was awesome.
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Unread 09-20-2006, 10:59 AM   #74
wrnglrguy
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Quote:
There is also a 3rd, the one that does both!
That's true!! Now that I have recently moved near the beach, I guess I am in that category .
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Unread 09-20-2006, 11:06 AM   #75
LEDFoot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddastrat
I agree it's just an option, but then again abortion is an option too, doesn't make it right.
And there you have it people: adding power windows to your jeep kills babies!
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