Need Stories about failing clutch systems, going to small claims court. - Page 2 - JeepForum.com
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post #16 of 39 Old 10-22-2013, 11:18 AM
COLOUXJ
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Originally Posted by LTGreek View Post
I have a witness, He is going to say the truth. We will begin by telling the judge what happened on the beach. I will bring in a manual, and show the judge what a jeep is capable of overcoming according to the manufacturer. Also, I will show the judge my licenses and explain my creditable as a driver on and off road according to the United States Army. After, I give an in-depth explanation of what happen on the beach, whatever engineer will explain how a clutch work and the reasons why it could fail in that situation. I will also say, that if the manual, and Chryslerís Marketing claims that their trail rated vehicles can handle the sand on a beach. Then I will mention the second time it failed, but this time the fingers on the pressure plate were warped, and explain how in no way that any of this could be cause by the operator.
Well good luck.

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post #17 of 39 Old 10-22-2013, 11:21 AM Thread Starter
LTGreek
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All the best then, the rules about giving expert testimony must be different there.

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I have a lot to learn. I am not a layer, this is just small claims court. If you have a better idea, then by all means, please share.

Really, please share...
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post #18 of 39 Old 10-22-2013, 11:21 AM
COLOUXJ
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I have a lot to learn. I am not a layer, this is just small claims court. If you have a better idea, then by all means, please share.

Really, please share...
We tried. Get physical proof that they cannot fight. I can fight words all day.
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post #19 of 39 Old 10-22-2013, 11:28 AM
2Five22
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If you are relying on anecdotal stories off of the internet to bolster your claim in small claims court, don't even bother to appear for the hearing. You need evidence and anonymous stories off the 'net are not even close to resembling credible evidence.

Go read up on the Rules of Civil Procedure for Maryland and memorize the basic process. Break down your assertions into logical argumentation, supported by substantive evidence. There are several books on how to present a case in small claims court and sitting through several hearings would show you first hand what the judges want in their courts and how to/how not to present a case.

DoD and DoA motor vehicle permits and endorsements are not evidence of expertise in MV operation, but certification on meeting minimum standards on operator training. Unless you are able to introduce the appropriate POIs, the syllabi, and the relevant GTAs, the court is not likely to accept any certifications.

'13 JK Rubicon in white - the German Shepherd's
'13 JKU Sport in gecko - her Majesty's

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post #20 of 39 Old 10-22-2013, 12:04 PM Thread Starter
LTGreek
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Originally Posted by 2Five22 View Post
If you are relying on anecdotal stories off of the internet to bolster your claim in small claims court, don't even bother to appear for the hearing. You need evidence and anonymous stories off the 'net are not even close to resembling credible evidence.

Go read up on the Rules of Civil Procedure for Maryland and memorize the basic process. Break down your assertions into logical argumentation, supported by substantive evidence. There are several books on how to present a case in small claims court and sitting through several hearings would show you first hand what the judges want in their courts and how to/how not to present a case.

DoD and DoA motor vehicle permits and endorsements are not evidence of expertise in MV operation, but certification on meeting minimum standards on operator training. Unless you are able to introduce the appropriate POIs, the syllabi, and the relevant GTAs, the court is not likely to accept any certifications.
I can get said items, like the syllabus for my courses. I feel that if I can prove that i'm qualified to drove off-road, it will help prove that it was not driver error.
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post #21 of 39 Old 10-22-2013, 12:09 PM Thread Starter
LTGreek
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Originally Posted by 2Five22 View Post
If you are relying on anecdotal stories off of the internet to bolster your claim in small claims court, don't even bother to appear for the hearing. You need evidence and anonymous stories off the 'net are not even close to resembling credible evidence.

Go read up on the Rules of Civil Procedure for Maryland and memorize the basic process. Break down your assertions into logical argumentation, supported by substantive evidence. There are several books on how to present a case in small claims court and sitting through several hearings would show you first hand what the judges want in their courts and how to/how not to present a case.

DoD and DoA motor vehicle permits and endorsements are not evidence of expertise in MV operation, but certification on meeting minimum standards on operator training. Unless you are able to introduce the appropriate POIs, the syllabi, and the relevant GTAs, the court is not likely to accept any certifications.
I was not planning on baseing my argument off of anonymous statements. I just wanted an area where I can go to show the judge that this does happen; contrary to what Chrysler has said me in the past, and may say at the hearing.
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post #22 of 39 Old 10-22-2013, 01:25 PM
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Just curious - how will anecdotal hearsay from the web (with the web considered ENTIRELY heresay) do anything for YOUR actual circumstances?

I would discredit the intelligence\experience level of any attorney who advises you to fish for stories (and or share yours) on web forums - or that would not advise AGAINST doing so... been in a few 'suits myself so know firsthand - anything you read, print or see on the web - unless you subpoena the writer and pay his expenses and he testifies IN PERSON - not just at trial but depositions in discovery as well.

Telling the Judge "I know of 27 other instances" will have him ask "Please present your first witness" - not having one will make you look REAL bad and even the things you DO produce as evidence will no longer carry the weight you want it to - just like a person who lies one time is a liar from then on! If you present your case and make it evident that YOU rely on hearsay - then it is only logical that the arguments you make are driven by hearsay as well - and THATS what will go through the Judges mind - regardless of RCP (which are in place to prevent such pre judgmental issues - not just from jury but from judge as well!).

Further - any lawsuit I have ever been in as either defendant or plaintiff I was STRONGLY encouraged to KEEP MY MOUTH SHUT unless lawyer was there - not only on facts of case - but even regarding EXISTENCE of case.. You done broke that rule!
Good luck.

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The wagon should, of course, be as light as possible, but strength should not be sacrificed to lightness, for on any but the regularly traveled roads, the wagon will get many a hard knock...
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post #23 of 39 Old 10-22-2013, 01:49 PM
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[QUOTE=LTGreek;17052498] I have a witness, He is going to say the truth. [QUOTE]

Well, what is the problem then? :P

There once was a man from Nantucket...
...when driving on the beach he said "**** it"...

PS: make sure the judge doesn't drive a Prius, just to make sure that he has half a chance to understand all of the 4x4 speak.
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post #24 of 39 Old 10-22-2013, 04:10 PM
Ruby_Tuesday
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ok, guess ill say it......learn to drive a manual or get an auto
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post #25 of 39 Old 10-22-2013, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by LTGreek View Post
I was not planning on baseing my argument off of anonymous statements. I just wanted an area where I can go to show the judge that this does happen; contrary to what Chrysler has said me in the past, and may say at the hearing.
As a military police officer, you know that this is not evidence. Your point of claim is merely conjecture on your part, because you cannot show that the claims made by third parties are substantive to your claim or even true.

You would need to motion the court to issue a subpoena duces tecum to Chrysler to produce documents relating to manual transmission failure rates in recent Wrangler models under warranty. Expect to be ignored by Chrysler and you'll have to sue in a court of record.

'13 JK Rubicon in white - the German Shepherd's
'13 JKU Sport in gecko - her Majesty's

I am just the chauffeur.
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post #26 of 39 Old 10-22-2013, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by LTGreek View Post
I can get said items, like the syllabus for my courses. I feel that if I can prove that i'm qualified to drove off-road, it will help prove that it was not driver error.
How do you prove that you were driving with due diligence and reasonable care in this instance?

'13 JK Rubicon in white - the German Shepherd's
'13 JKU Sport in gecko - her Majesty's

I am just the chauffeur.
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post #27 of 39 Old 10-22-2013, 10:29 PM
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Couple thoughts, first, read your warranty book, I think it requires a mediation or arbitration process before you sue. Second supoena mopar for their records on how many clutches, how many recalls, how many TSBs they have had. Next, search the web for other clutch stories, Private message or email them and ask for a certified letter with their stories.

Before you do all this, go talk to the service manager at a dealer you like. Beg them to take a look and determine why your clutch is frying. If they find nothing, take it to a specialist who does clutches all day long for a loving and have them take it apart and write you a report on what they found.

In the end, Chrysler will demand you go through arbitration, then when you file in small claims they will lawyer up and demand the case be moved to superior court or federal court. They do this because the entry fee at those levels of court is usually over $5000 to walk in the door.

Now, is it worth over five thousand dollars to fix a $300 clutch? I think you would be better off going to a specialist and get their ideas first, and fix it right.

Thank you for your service, which won't get you anything in a court of law, sorry.
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post #28 of 39 Old 10-22-2013, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by LTGreek View Post
I have a witness, He is going to say the truth. We will begin by telling the judge what happened on the beach. I will bring in a manual, and show the judge what a jeep is capable of overcoming according to the manufacturer. Also, I will show the judge my licenses and explain my creditable as a driver on and off road according to the United States Army. After, I give an in-depth explanation of what happen on the beach, whatever engineer will explain how a clutch work and the reasons why it could fail in that situation. I will also say, that if the manual, and Chrysler’s Marketing claims that their trail rated vehicles can handle the sand on a beach. Then I will mention the second time it failed, but this time the fingers on the pressure plate were warped, and explain how in no way that any of this could be cause by the operator.
1st all your military driving is in automatic trans vehicles which is far different then manuals on all surfaces.Like already stated learn how to drive a manual cause from everything you stated it sounds like driver error,sorry but as a 16 year ASE Master Tech that what it sounds like.If you don't install the clutch right it just does not work.Warped fingers is caused by extreme heat,again driver error.They will laugh you out of court.


You have a low range,use it.

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post #29 of 39 Old 10-23-2013, 03:34 PM
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First...Thanks for your service.
Second...I don't believe the Wranglers have any Italian engineering...dumb statement.
Third...IF you have a complaint, it should be with the first shop that fixed your clutch, not Chrysler. If they installed new Chrysler parts, those parts are guaranteed for 12 months/12,000 miles. Have them re-repair it under the warranty.
Forth...Good luck!

P-51 Dolly...when you are out of Mustangs, you are out of fighters.
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post #30 of 39 Old 10-23-2013, 04:25 PM
MikeHoncho88
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OP,

What gear were you in and what speed were you traveling at when you first started losing power?

Sounds to me like you were in too high of a gear for the speed going up a hill and fried your clutch.

Sorry just read your description of events and that is my unbiased opinion.
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