In need of advice, Dealer replacing a lemon... - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Jeep Wrangler Forums > JK Wrangler Technical Forum > In need of advice, Dealer replacing a lemon...

Introducing MONSTALINER™ UV Permanent DIY Roll On Bed LineToxic Brakes - 3000 PSI Braided Stainless Steel Brake LineCess Recovery Gear Snatch Tow Strap OffRoad @ ROCKRIDGE4WD

Reply
Unread 04-22-2014, 11:56 AM   #1
tjd241
Registered User
2013 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: unspecified, east coast
Posts: 32
In need of advice, Dealer replacing a lemon...

Greetings and thanks in advance for any advice/info you can offer... I am the former owner of 2 Wranglers. An 87 I drove for 15 yrs and a 2006 I drove for 7 years. Loved both of them. NOW, I am the not so happy owner of a 2013 Wrangler Sport-S model. Had it for almost a year, 12k on it now. Not so happy because of a seemingly unfixable leaking Freedom top. I've been going back and forth for months to their shop. I know I'm not alone on this problem. 1st one side leaked then both, now the passenger again. I wanted to love this Jeep, but I freakin hate it now. I have not removed the tops even once for fear of it leaking again again. The others I drove and drove and drove with no issues. The '06 had a factory soft top that didn't leak a drop. This one now the carpets are getting soaked, cleaned dried, soaked, cleaned dried, etc. 4 trips to the service dept, 4 loaner rental cars, etc. The sales office has set up a meeting tomorrow night at their request. The sales guy (who I like) said... "I will start the process with chrysler by which we can make it financially reasonable to replace it with a 2014". I've never had anything like this happen in my life (Lemon Law Crap)... Sounds like I have to pony up some dough? I can't afford anymore than I spent.

Why would they not replace the whole top?

I even expected they might talk to me about a soft top and some sort of adjusted compensation.. but they didn't??

What should I expect? Anyone ever go through this BS before?

Totally depressed about this whole deal and what's worse I'm clueless.

tjd241 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-22-2014, 12:20 PM   #2
ultrabullit
Registered User
2012 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: alabaster, Alabama
Posts: 59
I fought the same battle with my 2012 Sport, only I could not file Lemon Law as I bought it used. I have dealt with Lemon Law on a Mustang once and I ended up getting the car bought back from me and was refunded every payment I had made for the 9 months that I owned it. The car ended up being in the shop for 6.5 months of the 9 so I had a pretty strong case in getting money back. I would think in your situation that the salesman may be trying to get you in a 14 for what you are paying now a month, but I could be wrong though.

As for my leak they, they finally fixed it by replacing every gasket on the top and doors, as soon as I got it home, the top was replaced with a Trektop NX. Good luck with your fight and keep us updated.
__________________
1998 Sahara----Traded for JKUSp

2012 JKUSp Bright White, Black Freedom Top
Work in Progress
ultrabullit is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-23-2014, 04:02 AM   #3
tjd241
Registered User
2013 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: unspecified, east coast
Posts: 32
Thanks ultraB.... I will post up after I find out. Still a head-scratcher why they don't try replacing the top. Maybe they've shelled out enough in man hours and labor costs and at this point want Chrysler to make good on it. I don't know know who loses out most on this whole deal but I guess I'm about to find out.
tjd241 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-23-2014, 05:31 AM   #4
Wrigley
Registered User
2013 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: fLORIDA
Posts: 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjd241 View Post
Greetings and thanks in advance for any advice/info you can offer... I am the former owner of 2 Wranglers. An 87 I drove for 15 yrs and a 2006 I drove for 7 years. Loved both of them. NOW, I am the not so happy owner of a 2013 Wrangler Sport-S model. Had it for almost a year, 12k on it now. Not so happy because of a seemingly unfixable leaking Freedom top. I've been going back and forth for months to their shop. I know I'm not alone on this problem. 1st one side leaked then both, now the passenger again. I wanted to love this Jeep, but I freakin hate it now. I have not removed the tops even once for fear of it leaking again again. The others I drove and drove and drove with no issues. The '06 had a factory soft top that didn't leak a drop. This one now the carpets are getting soaked, cleaned dried, soaked, cleaned dried, etc. 4 trips to the service dept, 4 loaner rental cars, etc. The sales office has set up a meeting tomorrow night at their request. The sales guy (who I like) said... "I will start the process with chrysler by which we can make it financially reasonable to replace it with a 2014". I've never had anything like this happen in my life (Lemon Law Crap)... Sounds like I have to pony up some dough? I can't afford anymore than I spent.

Why would they not replace the whole top?

I even expected they might talk to me about a soft top and some sort of adjusted compensation.. but they didn't??

What should I expect? Anyone ever go through this BS before?

Totally depressed about this whole deal and what's worse I'm clueless.
That's the "sales guy" talking, I wouldn't put a whole lot of faith in what he has to say. The "powers to be" over him will make the final decision. I would be very surprised if they put you in a 1 year newer Jeep simply because of a leak. I suspect they will try a top replacement or maybe even give you a couple different options to choose from. Good luck and keep us informed.

Mike
Wrigley is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-23-2014, 06:34 AM   #5
brianjw
Registered User
2012 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Hillsboro, Or
Posts: 1,364
Wow I cannot believe people are trying the lemon law for a three piece removable top leaking.

The three piece hard tops all have some flex and give. Sometimes a little thicker seal fixes it as things expand and contract and move around. When I bought my new 2012 I accepted that it was a potential leak just from looking at it.

If one of the actual panels is cracked or allowing water into it, the dealer should try replacing the panel.

If you like the jeep otherwise, buy a soft top and sell the hard top, and pocket the cash.

I'm pretty sure there are some one piece aftermarket hard tops if you were really interested...?
brianjw is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-23-2014, 07:13 AM   #6
ultrabullit
Registered User
2012 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: alabaster, Alabama
Posts: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianjw View Post
Wow I cannot believe people are trying the lemon law for a three piece removable top leaking.

The three piece hard tops all have some flex and give. Sometimes a little thicker seal fixes it as things expand and contract and move around. When I bought my new 2012 I accepted that it was a potential leak just from looking at it.
I totally agree with you on the Lemon Law over a leak, I think the OP's dealer is tired of working on his and that is the way they are going to get out of doing anymore work on it. Every dealer within a 100 mile radius of me will not fix leaking tops, they sub out the work to a 3rd party, after the 6th time the finally got mine dry and it wasn't even the Freedom Top leaking, they replaced all the seals on the body associated with the cabin, i.e. doors, jambs, header seal, seal between the windshield and chassis, and most of the firewall grommets.
__________________
1998 Sahara----Traded for JKUSp

2012 JKUSp Bright White, Black Freedom Top
Work in Progress
ultrabullit is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-23-2014, 08:48 AM   #7
tjd241
Registered User
2013 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: unspecified, east coast
Posts: 32
Thanks for the heads-up. I think I understand better where they might be heading and/or at least know what I might expect to hear. I really do hope there are some "options". I didn't expect to be offered a 1 year newer car. The suggestion of getting Chrysler involved actually wasn't even mine. I didn't play the lemon law card. The sales guy sees me in and out of there and knows why I'm there. He basically said let me know if you need any help on this problem ... so I contacted him. I don't think that's out of line or expecting too much after buying 2 Wranglers and 3 Libertys from him. I'm really not getting anywhere with the service dept and the only party benefitting from our relationship seems to be the rental car company that gets me the loaner cars. I know they've done the seals and gaskets twice and they've siliconed every part possible on the top itself. I smelled it for 2 week last time.

As far as accepting that the Freedom Top was a potential leak waiting to happen, me personally? It didn't even cross my mind. My '87 hardtop with a sunroof didn't leak in 15 years and my '06 with a factory soft top didn't leak in 7 years (THRU 2 hURRICANES AND 3 FEET OF SNOW). However I do see your point, but then again me personally, I don't usually think about how I can re-engineer or address a new vehicle's existing problems before I take ownership of it. Although it's a lesson now learned, a leaking top on a brand new vehicle is unacceptable anyway you slice it.

I can tell you this though, I see my role in this as fulfilled. My job is to take care of the vehicle and make the payments. Mission accomplished on that front. I will not be buying anything aftermarket to fix something that they can't. There's thousands of these out there running dry as a bone... mine should be among them.

Not sure how this will shake out. I don't need my *** kissed, then again I certainly don't need it ridden like Seabiscuit either. I'll let you know how I make out and thanks again.
tjd241 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-23-2014, 09:10 AM   #8
JIMBOX
Web Wheeler
2008 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NORCAL/NORNV
Posts: 4,456
I didn't really wanna get inon this, because the JK leak problem is SO ENORMOUS--but !

My JKUR is now 6 years old and has only been to a dealer one time, for a TQ reflash-

There have been many minor warranty'd problems, but no eng/tranny major problems--I just took care of the minor ones and no down tme--now

Mine leaked at first, also, what I found was that besides the STOCK gasket material, there are several "KEY" rubber tabs in strategic points at the top "Freedom Top" corners and-

I moved the front top door (body) hinges "IN"--1/8"-now for 5 years, no leaks and I always clean the top gaskets when reinstalling the tops--

You must follow a sequence on installation, so the gaskets won't get compromised -

Good luck

JIMBO
__________________
Yellow Jeep No. 683
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/m...10-snow027.jpg
--YA GOTTA HAVE CLASS--
JIMBOX is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-23-2014, 10:01 AM   #9
tjd241
Registered User
2013 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: unspecified, east coast
Posts: 32
Thanks Jim... I am aware of that installation sequence and plan to follow it again... if I ever remove the tops again. There has been no removing it for enjoyment sake. Since this has been going on I haven't removed the tops except after detecting leaks to see if re-installing the tops was the issue. Each time, before I give up the car for days to the dealer I figured I'd try for the heck of it, taking it off and putting it back. I've tried tightening the hand screws until tight (but not cranked in though), tightening them basically "finger" tight, and even tried to follow advice on a post where one fella says he doesn't even use the screws and he has no leaks. Nothing has helped.
tjd241 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-23-2014, 08:14 PM   #10
djm
Registered User
2013 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: PENNINGTON, NJ
Posts: 413
I can only speak of the NJ lemon law and it is important to do 2 things. One is document the complaint as soon as possible because any money you, the vehicle owner, has to pay for a replacement vehicle or the use of the vehicle you are turning back, is based upon the mileage at the time you FIRST brought the problem to the dealer's attention. Second, Chrysler has to be notified of the dealer's failure to correct a problem and they must be offered the opportunity to correct the problem.

In New Jersey, when a manufacture is taking a vehicle back under the provisions of the Lemon Law there are two options - the Manufacturer buys the vehicle back for exactly what you paid for it, including any aftermarket options purchased for or installed in the vehicle - for example - if a CB radio and antenna were added, special floor mats, a soft top purchased for a vehicle delivered with only a hard top, etc. Receipts are required. A formula is used to deduct an amount for the miles used, again the mileage is based upon the miles at the time the problem was First reported to the dealer.

Option 2 is the Manufacture provides a brand new replacement vehicle - exactly as the one you currently have - newer model year if necessary - with exactly the same original equipment as the vehicle being given back as a lemon. If the customer wants to add any additional original equipment - there is no negotiation of the price - MSRP for any additional items or model change for the replacement vehicle.

A mileage deduction is made for either option - based upon the miles at the time the issue was first brought to the attention of the dealer. The mileage deduction is generally around $0.25 cents per mile. So a vehicle being turned in with 10,000 miles would mean a $2,500.00 deduction for mileage used.
djm is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-23-2014, 09:00 PM   #11
yjcrawlr
Registered User
1990 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Southern Oklahoma
Posts: 1,783
My 2014 jku freedom top has leaked a few times on the driver side floor mat. I don't think I would ever try and get my jeep lemon law'd for something like this. I have owned 3 wranglers. 2 of which I purchased brand new. All of the tops I've had have leaked a little water a few times. I'll save the lemon law for real problems. For a little leak I'll probably just re-seal my top or get a tube of silicone.
__________________
90 YJ 102 in wb stretch, SOA, dana 60, 14 bolt welded,4.56s, 37in Parnelli jones dirt grips, currie twin stick dana 300, york oba, tractor link traction bar, full custom armor,poison spyder tube fenders, 95Cherokee High Output 4.0
2014 JKU, modified Rubicon Rails, RC stubby with warn 8000m, 2" leveling springs and OME trim spacers, Superchips Flashcal, Spidertrax wheel spacers, rubi shocks, and Lots more mods soon!!!
yjcrawlr is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-24-2014, 06:52 AM   #12
tjd241
Registered User
2013 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: unspecified, east coast
Posts: 32
Update: JK top leak...

First, I'll again say that I did not threaten or otherwise compel my sales guy to start the Lemon Law process. I'll also say that my .02 is that a leaking passenger compartment on any new vehicle, aside from a motorcycle, is unacceptable. Your mileage may vary.

I work in customer service. There is a good way and a bad way to interact with people and companies. (on both sides)... You cannot be a jerk. You will be fought tooth and nail the whole way if you start demanding things. I have not done that and will not do that. I respect the dealer position in this case. I sat with the salesman last night. I told him I wasn't angry... just deeply unsatisfied with the product and added I know they have really tried to fix the leak. He respected that. He knows I'll be back in a couple years to trade in the wife's Liberty and my Wrangler. We've built a relationship that benefits both of us. He said he has bought back other Wranglers due to this problem. I like my salesman and appreciate his candor. If you go in and act like a "richard" you'll get that turned right back around at you. Nobody likes a "richard". I was nervous about what to expect and there was no need to be. I'm very much at ease today. I didn't demand options. He offered me options (2 to be exact).

1) Order a new top. Try to see if that will solve the problem.

2) Take back this Jeep and get a new one. There is a price difference but with Chrysler good-will money and them (the dealer) eating a little... maybe me a little too due to mileage... they could match the payment I now make.

Bottom line?... I want to try a new top first. I want to like my Jeep. This my 3rd in over 20 years, so I think it's clear I'm into them. I do NOT look forward to the vehicle replacement process. That is a nuclear response that I am not going to happily undertake, but at the same time I am as much committed to not accepting a faulty product. There are thousands of Freedom Tops out there running dry as a bone... mine should be among them. The dealer also wants to try to at least lessen the water intrusion into the vehicle and has asked me to please come in and let them try. There is no point in letting it get worse before the new top arrives. I'm game for them to do that. So in 4-6 weeks we'll have a new top. I'll chime in when that one has been on for awhile. Thanks for all the advice... very much appreciated.
tjd241 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-24-2014, 07:26 AM   #13
yjcrawlr
Registered User
1990 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Southern Oklahoma
Posts: 1,783
Ok I see now. I was thinking this was kinda like the guy sueing McDonalds for the coffee being too hot. Where does it leak? Above the drivers left leg is where my 2014 leaks. I've searched it and it seems like a common problem. Maybe you will get lucky with the new top or the replacement vehicle.
__________________
90 YJ 102 in wb stretch, SOA, dana 60, 14 bolt welded,4.56s, 37in Parnelli jones dirt grips, currie twin stick dana 300, york oba, tractor link traction bar, full custom armor,poison spyder tube fenders, 95Cherokee High Output 4.0
2014 JKU, modified Rubicon Rails, RC stubby with warn 8000m, 2" leveling springs and OME trim spacers, Superchips Flashcal, Spidertrax wheel spacers, rubi shocks, and Lots more mods soon!!!
yjcrawlr is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-24-2014, 01:18 PM   #14
Godholio
Registered User
2012 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: West Haven, UT
Posts: 1,813
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjd241 View Post
First, I'll again say that I did not threaten or otherwise compel my sales guy to start the Lemon Law process. I'll also say that my .02 is that a leaking passenger compartment on any new vehicle, aside from a motorcycle, is unacceptable. Your mileage may vary.
It wasn't that long ago that any convertible under $75,000 or so leaked straight from the factory. It seems like an odd area for Jeep to try to hold onto tradition when there's talk of IFS in the coming years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yjcrawlr View Post
Ok I see now. I was thinking this was kinda like the guy sueing McDonalds for the coffee being too hot.
That lawsuit was 100% justified if you actually read up on it. I felt the same way about it until I had to read about it in a law class...where it was an example of tort laws actually doing what they're supposed to.
__________________
Utah Jeep Crew #148
No powerball here? How am I supposed to finance the mods?!?
'12 Sport...miss my YJ for all the wrong reasons though
Godholio is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-24-2014, 02:37 PM   #15
brianjw
Registered User
2012 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Hillsboro, Or
Posts: 1,364
Hope it works out. Nearly all of them leak, so if you end up taking the long route and getting a new rig, don't be surprised when it leaks too. The dealers here in the Pacific Northwest usually tell me the same thing. They all leak. They had people from jeep come out to "train" the dealers on fixing them and re-adjusted everything on the lot, said "you're good to go now". Next rain, they nearly all had some small amount of leaking.

There are just so many movable parts, easily removed doors etc. Comes at a price....
brianjw is offline   Reply With Quote




Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.