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Unread 07-20-2009, 03:40 PM   #1
treeshackler
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2010 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
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My jeep pops out of first gear

About once a week when I shift into first gear, the jeep pops out of first gear and goes into neutral. I spoke to the dealership and they have never heard of this before. I have an appointment next monday, but I would like some of your opinions and input please. 2009 jeep wrangler x, standard under 4,000 miles.

thanks in advance
Shane

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Unread 07-20-2009, 04:41 PM   #2
USAntigoon
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I responded in another forum to a similar issue as follows:

The 1/2 synchronizer sleeve (in which the 1/2 shift fork rides) moves towards first gear sliding over the synchro hub starting the synchronization process (synchro ring will be indexed and the cone will start picking up the cone of the first gear) Once the speed is equalized the coupler teeth will engage.. These teeth flanks have a back taper to assure positive engagement lock whilst transferring torque..
JOG (jump out of gear) can be created with following main conditions...
1) not enough spline (dogteeth) back-taper on synchro ring and coupler..(Manufacturing quality)
2) not FULL engagement during the shift cycle.. (shifting too fast or shifter boot interference)
3) the first gear has a triple cone synchronizer system and the floating synchro ring might drag too much (particularly in very cold weather..)
4) shift rail detent ball springs too weak (broken or worn out)

Everything has to be in balance to avoid "hard" shifts, (you still want to shift smoothly from 1-2 etc..) on one hand and to avoid JOG on the other hand..

The negative back taper is designed to create a lock whilst torque is transferred, as soon as you coast (reduce torque) the lock becomes less and with a bump it might do a JOG .

Just do a slow shift (be sure it is fully engaged) into first and get moving, keep a constant acceleration and maintain a slight load on the shifter towards second gear.. You will feel the "bite" from the back taper...if something is not right you will detect an easy slide out..

Bring the acceleration to almost coast and try this again..with a slight force the shifter can be moved out of first..

Just trying to give some background music..

Hope this helps..
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Unread 07-20-2009, 06:12 PM   #3
spolebitski
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I had this same issue with my 07 wrangler. When I spoke to the dealer they gave me a blank look ... then said they never heard of that ... then when the vehicle could not reproduce the symptom the dealer said they could do nothing because they could not duplicate.

In my recent experiences with the service center if they can't find a tsb or can get a code when they hook it up to the starscan you are out of luck. You can explain till you are blue in the face but most often if they can not duplicate the issue will not be fixed.
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Unread 07-20-2009, 07:08 PM   #4
drewmeister13
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I have also had the same issue with my 08. My dealer called chrysler direct and found that the inner boot is the problem. They "adjusted" it but it never fully fixed the problem. I even went for a test drive with the Shop foreman but could not replicate the problem. I just make sure that I feel first gear fully engage. If you don't feel the "click" then it's going to pop out. Also try the 2 to 1 shift at a complete stop or very close to it. One last thing, I have noticed that if the outer shift boot slides down some, that 1st might pop out. I havn't had the problem in about 4 months now just paying a little more attention when I put it into 1st.
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Unread 07-20-2009, 07:18 PM   #5
USAntigoon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spolebitski View Post
I had this same issue with my 07 wrangler. When I spoke to the dealer they gave me a blank look ... then said they never heard of that ... then when the vehicle could not reproduce the symptom the dealer said they could do nothing because they could not duplicate.

In my recent experiences with the service center if they can't find a tsb or can get a code when they hook it up to the starscan you are out of luck. You can explain till you are blue in the face but most often if they can not duplicate the issue will not be fixed.
Very few codes in the PCM (Powertrain Control Module) are set for a manual transmission.. I believe some transmission temp/ overheating control...But nothing of the shift nature like you have with auto transmissions. For the rest your average dealership knows very little about manual transmission..

The best way is, once the failure mode has been reproduced, to replace the transmission and put a new or a factory refurbished unit in with the same warranty coverage. You have to insist your dealer takes this "replacement" route, don't let them disassemble and try to find what is wrong.. You need lots of special tools and gear, spline measuring equipment ($$$$)..

With today's sophisticated assembly process and special dedicated equipment, a dealer will fall short in assuring the assembly quality required..

Even repairs in the OEM transmission assembly plants are limited.. Normal a full tear down and re assembly over the assembly line(s) with new parts are performed..

Sorry for the additional background music..
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Unread 07-20-2009, 07:57 PM   #6
treeshackler
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hey guys thanks for the replys, I just hope the dealership is willing to work with me, any thing that you think I could ask them or demand in a nice way that would be to my benefit would be greatly appreciated. I really would like to give the dealership the benefit of the doubt, but I dont have much faith. The service manager wants to ride with me to see if the problem can be duplicated or observed. I just have the feeling that I about to be given the run around. anyway thanks for all replys and letting me vent.

Shane
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Unread 07-21-2009, 07:23 AM   #7
tricked919
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317 - 2 ...this is a blowout!!

When is someone at DC going to get the hint that for the first time in history an auto tranny is embarassing a manual in reliability and performance.
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Unread 07-21-2009, 08:39 AM   #8
DominicR
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I've had the same issue (2007 JK). Never brought it in to the dealership for them to fix because it was so random. This may sound stupid but do you keep your hand on the shifter knob when you drive? In my older Wranglers it was never a problem but it is in this one. Now when I shift I make sure its in then take my hand off (unless im in gear 2, 4, or 6. Doesn't pop out from the bottom I've noticed). Not a great technical answer, but it seems to be working for me.
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Unread 07-21-2009, 09:00 AM   #9
USAntigoon
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Indeed it doesn't take much to push the shifter out of first whilst you have a slight reduction in acceleration.... If all is OK it will be hard to do in full acceleration mode.
I always keep my hand on the shifter whilst in first (with some forward pressure, old habits are hard to die.. )
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Unread 07-21-2009, 09:15 AM   #10
DominicR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USAntigoon View Post
... I always keep my hand on the shifter whilst in first (with some forward pressure, old habits are hard to die.. )
I do the same!
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Unread 07-21-2009, 12:15 PM   #11
Bananahead
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This happened to me for the first time this morning! Scared the crap out of me because I was all wrapped up in the song I was listening to, LOL. I think it happened because I had my hand resting on the shifer in preparation for the shift into 2nd. Now I keep my hand off the shifter whenever possible, except when I'm in 2nd, 4th, 6th. I hope that never happens again
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Unread 08-09-2009, 06:17 PM   #12
BigGreenYJ
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I know this is the JK side, but my LJ has done it to me several times now too. I just bought it a month or so ago and it is a little aggravating. Mine pops out after a stop as I'm starting in first, not going between 1-2. I like the gear ratio of the 6 spd, but the whole trans doesn't feel as tight as my YJ does. Oh well, I suppose I'll just keep firm pressure on it until I shift into 2nd or just start in 2nd. Good luck with your trannies too.
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Unread 08-09-2009, 08:08 PM   #13
KLboxer
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I've been having the same issue. It now seems to happen several times a day.

At first I thought it was my shifting habits ingrained from driving large trucks where you tend to put pressure on the shifter preparing for the next shift. I intentionally kept my hand off the shifter for a while to see if it still happens and it does. If you are taking off on a slight grade and have to modulate the clutch a bit to avoid a stall, it almost always pops out of gear as soon as the drive train goes "slack". Hard to describe, but that's the best way to explain it.

My dealer also gave me the blank stare, but I'm taking it in this week for the issue.
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Unread 08-10-2009, 06:05 AM   #14
USAntigoon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KLboxer View Post
I've been having the same issue. It now seems to happen several times a day.

At first I thought it was my shifting habits ingrained from driving large trucks where you tend to put pressure on the shifter preparing for the next shift. I intentionally kept my hand off the shifter for a while to see if it still happens and it does. If you are taking off on a slight grade and have to modulate the clutch a bit to avoid a stall, it almost always pops out of gear as soon as the drive train goes "slack". Hard to describe, but that's the best way to explain it.

My dealer also gave me the blank stare, but I'm taking it in this week for the issue.
Be sure there are no interferences of the shifter stub (bottom of shift lever) with surrounding hardware (boot etc..) As I stated earlier the lock in gear is maintained by negative tapers on splines and coupler dog teeth..
As soon as you have a reduction in driveline torque the lock in effect of the negative tapers will reduce and in the event the taper is marginal (manufacturing quality) a pop out will occur.. Hence back to the dealer and ask for a replacement tranny..
Don't let them open up transmission. They don't have the proper tools and measuring equipment to diagnose this JOG (jump out of gear)
Good Luck with your dealer and go in as an "informed customer". Their "blank" stare might change into...... who knows... good luck..
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Unread 09-11-2009, 08:17 AM   #15
shockwave562
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My 09 Rubicon has had this issue since it had maybe 2k miles on it. it only has five now but this happens to me 3-4 times a week I'd say. It happened to me this morning in the middle of an intersection which reminded me to check on here.

I used to have an 08 Sahara and never once had this problem and I know my shifting habits have not changed.

I know USAntigoon offered some good advice to keep an eye on it but I want this problem fixed. I don't want to just try extra hard to make sure it doesn't happen. I've never had this problem in my girlfriend's 08 X which I drive regulary as well. she was shocked when she experienced it for the first time last week.

I'll be furious if the dealer isn't helpful. has anyone here had luck with the dealer? I'd like to bring in information like this to help them out. I feel like if this problem continues it's going to cause some long term damage and I don't want to revisit this when I'm out of warranty
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