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Unread 03-28-2008, 09:29 AM   #1
dugn8r
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Mile Marker Hydraulic Winch Install photos!

My winch is installed and some of you asked for photos of how I routed the hydraulic lines. The installation was very easy and neat - and I don't have to worry about an upgraded alternator or additional battery. I was asked if the hoses were vulnerable to trail damage - they are not. They don't go under the radiator... they go next to it.

On the left side of the engine compartment (standing at the front looking at the vehicle) is the power steering pump. there are two hoses; a really large one and a smaller hose. The smaller hose is the high pressure hose that runs to the power steering box. This was taken off and I used Mile Marker part number 90-50400 (supplied in their parts kit) to adapt the provided hose to the power steering pump. The hose ran from the power steering pump, under the aurbox, as shown in the photo, through a hole on the left side near the bottom of the radiator and to the winch. You will see that I took the extra steps and wrapped the hoses in a special plastic armor that protects against chafing.



In this next photo, you can see where the hose exits from under the radiator. It has not yet been zip-tied in place, which is why it is in the place it is. After I zip tied it into place, it runs along that square bar over it. This is the bar where the bottom of the front grill secures:



The return line runs from the exit poer of the winch, in front of the radiator, and through a rubber boot on the right side. The red wire is to be secured, as is the hose. THis hose will be secured to the steering box.



The last photo is of the steering box. This is located aft of the radiator on the right side. The hose attaches to the steering box with Mile Marker part number 90-50300.



I was able to cut about 4 feet of hose from this installation. To have a hose company do this for you will cost about $20 dollars.

My installation is quite and the power steering doesn't maky any additional noise. I will be getting stuck sometime in the near future to see how this winch works. When I do, I will post some photos and, hopefully, video on youtube.

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Unread 03-28-2008, 09:43 AM   #2
BigJerm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dugn8r View Post
....... and I don't have to worry about an upgraded alternator or additional battery...
why would you have to anyways?



Either way, install is clean. I request a stuck up to the frame rail picture please!
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Unread 03-28-2008, 09:49 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by BigJerm View Post
why would you have to anyways?
I took it to mean he didn't need those because it's not an electric winch?
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Unread 03-28-2008, 10:02 AM   #4
dugn8r
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Originally Posted by BigJerm View Post
why would you have to anyways?



Either way, install is clean. I request a stuck up to the frame rail picture please!
I meant for an electric winch. Anyways - you can't see the hose from the bottom of the vehicle, so that shot would be useless.
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Unread 03-28-2008, 10:42 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by dugn8r View Post
I meant for an electric winch. Anyways - you can't see the hose from the bottom of the vehicle, so that shot would be useless.
I Know man, I just want to see a good stuck and the hydro work. You dont need to replace batteries and alt for electric but you cant beat the pull power/duration of hydro.
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Unread 03-28-2008, 10:11 PM   #6
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Did you upgrade your power steering pump??? It is usually a good idea because they aren't really made to handle the stress of the winch.
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Unread 03-29-2008, 03:30 AM   #7
dugn8r
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Originally Posted by igofshn View Post
Did you upgrade your power steering pump??? It is usually a good idea because they aren't really made to handle the stress of the winch.
Stress of a winch? 1200 psi is 1200 psi - I don't think it cares wether it is being used for steering or winching. Once you reach beyond that pressure, it simply travels out of the built-in relief valve with no harm to the pump. The resident engineer at the hydraulic place I went to said he could take out my pump and make the pressure relief kick in at a higher pressure if I wanted.

I wouldn't mind having a pump where I get 1500 or 1600 psi and a higher flow rate, but I don't know where to find something like that.
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Unread 03-29-2008, 04:57 AM   #8
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soo... I must be missing something here. What happens when you cant power the hydraulic pump due to a deep water stuck?
I say batteries is the better option here since you can still power it without a motor to charge the lines.
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Unread 03-29-2008, 06:10 AM   #9
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Now I donít have much off-road experience and I may be completely wrong in my thought process here so feel free to correct me if Iím wrong. For all of these thoughts Iím assuming that if youíre going somewhere where you could not only get stuck but get stuck bad enough to kill your engine that you are going out with at least one other rig. From what Iíve heard, most winches will only work for a max of four minutes with the engine off. My thinking is that if you were to use your winch to get yourself out of a situation where your engine had died, then there is a decent chance that you will kill your battery and not be able to start your engine again. Because of this you would need help from a buddy to get jumped in which case you could just have your buddy help you out and not need to worry about jumping your rig at all. Now if all this is true wouldnít it be smarter to use a Hydraulic winch so that you can do longer pulls to help both you and your buddy? - KY
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Unread 03-29-2008, 06:34 AM   #10
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Stress of a winch? 1200 psi is 1200 psi - I don't think it cares wether it is being used for steering or winching.
When your stock pump over heats, tell me the same thing. it is always a good idea for a hydraulic winch to upgrade the pump and put a cooler in line. Stock pumps overheat all the time even just rock crawling. we put coolers in line all the time.
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Unread 03-29-2008, 09:49 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by igofshn View Post
When your stock pump over heats, tell me the same thing. it is always a good idea for a hydraulic winch to upgrade the pump and put a cooler in line. Stock pumps overheat all the time even just rock crawling. we put coolers in line all the time.
I had this same winch on my other Rubicon for three years and have never had one single problem. I used it at least once per week pulling people out. Granted, sometimes that was just a stuck patrol car from a ditch, but I've also pulled up sandy trails when they were stuck sideways and no place to turn around (don't ask), pulled out large F250 super duties burried in the deep mud and many, many civilian vehicles that were just plain stuck.

Again, never a problem. So, when my stock pump overheats, I might tell you the same thing, but you will probably be waiting a long, long time. So please don't hold your breath on it.

As far as a deep water stuck, I'm going with 08Rubicon's answer. I don't intend to bring my Rubicon anywhere where I'm going to flood and damage the engine, so it's a moot point. I would rather the reliablility of a hydraulic over the odds I'm going to be stuck with an engine not running.

You may put your JK in a position where you will flip it over or get it burried in a river somewhere in the wilderness with no one around, so you may have different needs than I - if that's the case, I would probably opt for electric. But for me, it's not the case. I've killed 2 electrics in the past, but I've never needed to winch with an engine not running. From this statistical figure alone, it makes my own point.
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Unread 03-29-2008, 11:19 AM   #12
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Okay, possibly a stupid newby question but why would you want a hydraulic winch as opposed to an electric winch? Submersion in water issues??
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Unread 03-29-2008, 11:45 AM   #13
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I would have no doubt hydraulic is a much better design as opposed to electric. Hydraulics are a very simple design that have very few parts that can fail, meaning they can last a very long time. The only drawback that Ive heard about hydraulics are that they are slow, but that could of changed with design and better power stearing pumps. Im actually considering a hydraulic now after Ive seen how someone run the lines, it seems they are very resonably priced and more compacts. Also I was just curious if anyone could wire up the power steering pump directly to the battery so even if the engine is off you can still turn it on.
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Unread 03-29-2008, 11:53 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Bluecard View Post
Okay, possibly a stupid newby question but why would you want a hydraulic winch as opposed to an electric winch? Submersion in water issues??
Yeah - that's one reason. The overall reliability is far higher on hydraulic than on electric. In addition, say you have a 7000 pound load and you are using the equal-strength, 10,500 lb winches, electric and hydraulic. When you start pulling with an electric, as more weight is being pulled, the slower it goes and the more heat it generates. The motor just creeps along. With a hydraulic, this does not happen. The pulling power does not slow down until the winch reaches its max load and stalls. You will pull 7000 pounds as fast as you can pull your bare winch line. For long pulls in mud, this is very beneficial. Another benefit - when you stop winching with hydraulic, the line stops spooling immediately. With an electric, it runs until the engine slows down. This can be frustrating if you are trying to put the line on neatly.

Of course, there are two sides to this story and personal preference will determine which kind you should buy. The other side is this: An electric winch runs off the battery and can be used for a short time without the engine of the vehicle running whereas a hydraulic cannot. You will have to determine if you want a hugely reliable, waterproof and fast pulling (under load) winch or one that will run with the engine off. If you do not plan on rolling or submerging your vehicle, you may want the hydraulic. Of course, electric winches are not that great under water, anyways - Should you sink your vehicle, you are not garanteed the electric will get you out, either.

My first W**N winch (a 9000 lb one) died after a few months of heavy use (actually, began smoking and once I stopped winching, it never activated again). My second no better. That's when I decided to go hydraulic and I would never go back.

Here is a great video about hydraulic vs. electric:

http://www.milemarker.com/video/comparison.html

Last edited by dugn8r; 03-29-2008 at 12:17 PM..
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Unread 03-29-2008, 12:13 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Warlord2 View Post
I would have no doubt hydraulic is a much better design as opposed to electric. Hydraulics are a very simple design that have very few parts that can fail, meaning they can last a very long time. The only drawback that Ive heard about hydraulics are that they are slow, but that could of changed with design and better power stearing pumps. Im actually considering a hydraulic now after Ive seen how someone run the lines, it seems they are very resonably priced and more compacts. Also I was just curious if anyone could wire up the power steering pump directly to the battery so even if the engine is off you can still turn it on.
Well, the power steering pump is run by an engine pulley and driven by the engine crankshaft. You would have to get an auxiliary electric motor and another pump to run off the electric motor. Then pack it away in the back somewhere... totally unfeasable.

Hydraulic winches are slower when unloaded (no weight attached), however, they are equal in comparison when heavily loaded with weight. Of course, when you don't have weight attached (or a little weight), you just use high gear. Here is a breakdown - I'm using the first wrap for comparison purposes:

The 10,500 lb milemarker pulls at 5.7 FPM in low gear and 31 FPM in high gear. Low gear is good for 10500 lbs an High gear is usable for up to 1600 pounds. These numbers are good at any weight rating as long as the winch is not overloaded.

The Powerplant pulls at 5.2 fpm with a load of 9,500 and 26 fpm with no load.

If you are using the hydraulic with no load, you just put it in high gear and you are faster than the electric. If you are pulling a lot of weight, keep it in low gear and you are faster than the electric. The electric is faster at medium-weight pulls. If the Powerplant is only pulling 6000 lbs, the line speed goes up to 7.8 fpm where as the hydraulic steadliy goes at... 5.7.

Is the speed a factor? It could be, I guess. I'm not in a race, however, and as long as I get out, that's good enough.
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