[Imped]

Originally Posted by joeranger

OK, Please help. I do not have $1200 for a new clutch. I took the vehicle in a year ago and they told me they could not replicate the problem. When I called them after the TSB was released they said they had no experience with the issue. Now they are saying that a clutch is unrelated to the gears. A clutch is not covered after 12mo/12,000miles. I asked him if the clutch would get more wear and tear if the vehicle popped out of gear.
Is this a dead end? Why isn't this covered?

A new clutch costs $268 from dialaclutch.com. A transmission jack will cost you about $30 to rent for a day. Spend 4 hours on the job and you're done. It's not difficult regardless of how mechanically inclined you are. I did it when I was still a beginner and had no issues.

[trw]

Originally Posted by joeranger

Is it unreasonable to make the argument that all the extra shifting back into gear was harder on the clutch and it wore out faster?

extremely unlikely, a clutch should be able to shift as much as you need to without dieing over the span of its lifetime.

without dropping the transmission and seeing for ourselves, we are only speculating. It could be a freak defect in any given part or just an unfortunate circumstance.

I'm just brain storming here, but it may not even be the clutch itself that failed, your pressure plate mounting bolts might have sheared off (or loosened and fallen out) allowing the pressure plate to fall back off the clutch disc (or if it happened slowly, like one bolt at a time, it could allow the disc to slip really badly as the plate came loose bit by bit contributing to the smell you experienced before it failed completely).
Some assembly line worker could have over tightened the pressure plate bolts and cracked them or fatigued them (I've broken one before) if that's the case though, you'll have some broken off bolts to drill out of a flywheel but it won't require any new expensive parts if that's your issue, just lots of labor, one can only hope.

remember, you have a whole forum willing to aid you, so don't be afraid to drop the transmission yourself, a good tranny jack makes it much easier than it seems.

[him]

I was a passenger in a car when someone managed to break a clutch. It wasn't a jeep but clutches are clutches. She was coming off a freeway and managed to find 1st when she was aiming for 3rd, and she dropped the clutch instead of easing it out. Bang! Grinding noise. Very noticeable brake burning smell. No ability to move under power. I thought she'd wrecked the transmission but she told me later that she replaced the clutch and was back on the road.

Perhaps yours had some weakness that resulted in the same failure without the shift into 1st at 50+MPH?

Clutches are a wear item, but, unlike brakes, they last basically forever if you aren't a total putz. My last car had over 220K miles on the factory clutch and was still going strong (holding up to an upgraded turbo, injectors, custom tune, etc.) and in all honesty I've never had one wear out (unlike the bands in automatic transmissions, which wear out like clockwork), but they can certainly have quality issues like any other part.

[Warlord2]

May look into aftermarket clutches if its not covered under warranty, I believe Centerforce makes one and maybe SPEC. One guy replaced his a while ago on this forum and it was $500 for a stage 3.

[tjkj2002]

Originally Posted by him

IClutches are a wear item, but, unlike brakes, they last basically forever if you aren't a total putz. My last car had over 220K miles on the factory clutch and was still going strong (holding up to an upgraded turbo, injectors, custom tune, etc.) and in all honesty I've never had one wear out (unlike the bands in automatic transmissions, which wear out like clockwork), but they can certainly have quality issues like any other part.

They don't last forever.About 100,000 miles seems to be about average,some get more some get less.Mostly big city driving tends to shorten life,lots of highway and open spaces tend to lengthen life.

[him]

They don't last forever.About 100,000 miles seems to be about average,some get more some get less.

What did Chrysler do to cause that??? I've put over 100,000 miles on a number of cars, usually used cars with plenty of miles when I started, once 220K miles from new, all with plenty of stop-and-go (Southern California Freeways), towing, and performance mods; I've never worn out a clutch and I'm not sure why they would wear out. It's not as though you even need them once rolling. Of course that was foreign cars. I assumed the clutch was a mature technology and everyone knew how to build or buy one that would last.

Sorry OP! Didn't mean to hijack.

[tjkj2002]

Originally Posted by him

What did Chrysler do to cause that??? I've put over 100,000 miles on a number of cars, usually used cars with plenty of miles when I started, once 220K miles from new, all with plenty of stop-and-go (Southern California Freeways), towing, and performance mods; I've never worn out a clutch and I'm not sure why they would wear out. It's not as though you even need them once rolling. Of course that was foreign cars. I assumed the clutch was a mature technology and everyone knew how to build or buy one that would last.

Sorry OP! Didn't mean to hijack.

Wonder why I have about a 5:1 ratio of clutch replacements to auto trans replacements?

[Imped]

Originally Posted by tjkj2002

Wonder why I have about a 5:1 ratio of clutch replacements to auto trans replacements?

You're comparing a clutch (component) to an entire transmission. That's an apples to oranges comparison.

A clutch is a wear item. 100,000 miles for something that takes an afternoon to swap out seems fair to me. If your jeep lives purely on the road, I wouldn't be surprised if it lasts much longer. For those who wheel our jeeps, 100,000 miles is great. And it's usually not the clutch plate or pressure plate that go....the throwout bearing almost always goes well before any of the other components.

[him]

Wonder why I have about a 5:1 ratio of clutch replacements to auto trans replacements?

Dunno. I've only had four transmissions fail and half of those were stick. One auto transmission failed due to the bands wearing out, another failed for reasons I never bothered to figure out (junked the car). One manual transaxle failed due to a pin in the differential coming undone, and another manual transmission failed due to part of the shift system breaking inside the transmission. The joys of driving a lot of old used cars. Repairs were done on the cheap (junk yard parts) and I didn't bother to replace clutches with transmissions.

I basically agree with Imped, with the only quibble being that my personal experience goes counter to what he is saying. I'm also not 100 sure why wheeling would make a difference. I've always made an effort to stay off the clutch as much as possible, especially in dirt or while towing. My general view is that worn out clutch = putz driver. I know people who wear out clutches every 40K miles and it is miserable to ride with them...feel like I'm gonna get whiplash every time they shift. It's like the idea of matching revs is totally alien to them. I'll probably have to eat those words when my next clutch burns out in 40,000 miles, but that's my view.

[JeffinWesternWA]

Originally Posted by joeranger

Such is the life of a commission sales person, feast and famine. Right now, with x-mas coming up, $1200 is a big deal for me.

Is it unreasonable to make the argument that all the extra shifting back into gear was harder on the clutch and it wore out faster?

You Need to find a new product/service to sell, I was in commission (only) sales for 16+ years, average gross was $197K+ at worst to $501K++ at best. Maybe $60K~ in expenses. Was nice paying $150K in federal taxes but, saving/investing the same amount and more each year, I retired at 47! Sales is THE best paing field to be in. Get rockin'. BTW, look for an independent shop to do the job and save $$. Replace the shift boot that sticks too while you're "in there". G'Luck!

[joeranger]

My general view is that worn out clutch = putz driver.

My buddy asked me if my "husband" also drove it a lot.

What would be a reasonable amount to pay the dealership to fix the clutch? They know something isn't right and don't want me calling Chrysler to complain. I would like to work with them and also have them fix the TSB issue.

[JeffinWesternWA]

"You pay parts, they pay labor", try it while you refer to the xmission TSB, etc., ...you could also contact the Zone rep for a meeting. I once had a Xysler car REPLACED fully 2 model years later with a full credit of MSRP on the old one that Chrysler bought back!

[tjkj2002]

Originally Posted by him

My general view is that worn out clutch = putz driver.

Guess there is just alot of putz's in the world because if they all new how to drive no one ever would have to replace a clutch.

I like that one I'll tell that to the owner of the Camaro I'm replacing the clutch on sunday that he's a putz and doesn't know how to drive,even though he's only ever driven manuals for the last 40+ years,professionally also(OTR trucker).

[him]

Yep, plenty of putzes in the world.

To be a little less condescending: Clutch wear can be a valid choice. Especially on a track. Some performance driving techniques are MUCH easier to control by sacrificing clutch, especially when you need near-instant access to peak torque or HP. Sometimes it's a matter of clutch or tires, and the clutch may be cheaper than a set of tires. I see nothing wrong with someone who wants to wring every fraction out of a car knowingly frying their clutch...it's their money and their fun, who am I to interfere?

However, 99% of clutch wear comes down to two driver errors:

1) Use of the clutch, instead of the engine, as a brake. If you are in 6th and want to slow down, hit the clutch, put the vehicle in neutral, rev the engine until its spinning like you are driving in 5th or 4th, shift into that gear, and then, once your foot is off the clutch, take your foot off the accelerator. The compression of the engine will slow you down with zero wear on the clutch. Too many people take their foot off the accelerator, downshift, and use the clutch to drag the engine back up to revs. Dumb, wasteful, and uncomfortable for passengers.

2) Slipping the clutch when rolling. Especially on a high torque/low geared vehicle there is no reason to slip the clutch at anything over about 5MPH (OK, exception time: if you have sports car that is geared to do 45 in 1st gear, slip away). Again, when ready to shift, dump the tranny into neutral, ease off the gas until the revs are what they should be in the higher gear, clutch, shift, dump the clutch and punch the gas. Takes half a second start to finish and in all honesty can be done without ever touching the clutch, though I don't recommend that until the clutch actuator breaks. It not only saves the clutch, it's easier on the rest of the drive train and your passengers too.

I know, preaching to the choir or something, but it's just not that hard to do it right.

[tjkj2002]

Originally Posted by him

Yep, plenty of putzes in the world.

To be a little less condescending: Clutch wear can be a valid choice. Especially on a track. Some performance driving techniques are MUCH easier to control by sacrificing clutch, especially when you need near-instant access to peak torque or HP. Sometimes it's a matter of clutch or tires, and the clutch may be cheaper than a set of tires. I see nothing wrong with someone who wants to wring every fraction out of a car knowingly frying their clutch...it's their money and their fun, who am I to interfere?

However, 99% of clutch wear comes down to two driver errors:

1) Use of the clutch, instead of the engine, as a brake. If you are in 6th and want to slow down, hit the clutch, put the vehicle in neutral, rev the engine until its spinning like you are driving in 5th or 4th, shift into that gear, and then, once your foot is off the clutch, take your foot off the accelerator. The compression of the engine will slow you down with zero wear on the clutch. Too many people take their foot off the accelerator, downshift, and use the clutch to drag the engine back up to revs. Dumb, wasteful, and uncomfortable for passengers.

2) Slipping the clutch when rolling. Especially on a high torque vehicle there is no reason to slip the clutch at anything over about 5MPH. Again, when ready to shift, dump the tranny into neutral, ease off the gas until the revs are what they should be in the higher gear, clutch, shift, dump the clutch and punch the gas. Takes half a second start to finish and in all honesty can be done without ever touching the clutch, though I don't recommend that until the clutch actuator breaks. It not only saves the clutch, it's easier on the rest of the drive train and your passengers too.

I know, preaching to the choir or something, but it's just not that hard to do it right.

Yeah a little hard to do those in bumper to bumper traffic.They wearout and that is all there is to it otherwise there would be more then a 12/12,000 warranty on them.

Same with brakes,some can go 100k before needing to be changed while others go through them in 30k and no most times it is not the driver as it is to the driving conditions they must face.And yes some drivers just by nature no matter what eat brakes fast,same goes with clutches but on the whole it comes down to driving conditions with a little driver input.