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Unread 09-06-2013, 07:53 PM   #16
csm41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyder6 View Post
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think you'd be a lot happier with the AEV 3.5" dual sport than than rock Krawler. RK does nothing to correct roll center and their coils are not progressive wound or frequency tuned like the AEVs are.
I disagree. I must have been imagining those progressive front RK coils I just installed on my JKU. Nothing against the AEV lift, but the quality on this RK stuff is very apparent when you put your hands on it and do the install.

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Unread 09-06-2013, 08:53 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyder6 View Post
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think you'd be a lot happier with the AEV 3.5" dual sport than than rock Krawler. RK does nothing to correct roll center and their coils are not progressive wound or frequency tuned like the AEVs are.
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Unread 09-06-2013, 10:01 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csm41

I disagree. I must have been imagining those progressive front RK coils I just installed on my JKU. Nothing against the AEV lift, but the quality on this RK stuff is very apparent when you put your hands on it and do the install.
Just because the coils get closer together at the top of the spring doesn't make them progressive or frequency composed. RK is a quality unit, but they do cut corners to create a large profit margin for the premium suspension market.

RK still does nothing to correct roll center, which is a big issue in my book.
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Unread 09-07-2013, 07:33 AM   #19
csm41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyder6 View Post
Just because the coils get closer together at the top of the spring doesn't make them progressive or frequency composed. RK is a quality unit, but they do cut corners to create a large profit margin for the premium suspension market.

RK still does nothing to correct roll center, which is a big issue in my book.
I honestly looked hard at AEV as well as the Old Man Emu kit and liked them both. I had an OME lift on my 89 YJ and my 04 Rubicon. Great quality. Can't lose with any ARB product. AEV stuff is high quality as well. It really came down to what my local 4x4 shop sold. I hate mail order because if there is a problem, I can get face to face customer service. I also like to support my local economy. That said, please explain how AEV corrects roll center any better than any other lift.
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Unread 09-07-2013, 08:43 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csm41

I honestly looked hard at AEV as well as the Old Man Emu kit and liked them both. I had an OME lift on my 89 YJ and my 04 Rubicon. Great quality. Can't lose with any ARB product. AEV stuff is high quality as well. It really came down to what my local 4x4 shop sold. I hate mail order because if there is a problem, I can get face to face customer service. I also like to support my local economy. That said, please explain how AEV corrects roll center any better than any other lift.
The rear track bar relocation bracket on my aev 3.5" lift moves the rear track bar mount up about 7" higher than factory. And they provide a new rear track bar, bent differently than others, that allows it to mount higher and clear exhaust.
Most companies only move the mount up 2-3". You do the math.
Also, the aev rear track bar bracket mounts to the factory mount, and the axle tubes on both sides via u bolts. Much stronger than the other bolt on brackets I've seen.
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Unread 09-07-2013, 09:10 AM   #21
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pretty much what Brian said. AEV's brackets raise the track bar heights front and rear between 5 and 7", as well flips the tie rod. Without using custom bracketry from say synergy cutting and welding the new ones on, AEV's brackets are the best you can do.

All this said, ive left my dislike of RK's control arms completely out of the conversation for sake of making this a better conversation than a pure argument.
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Unread 09-07-2013, 01:46 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by brianjw View Post
Also, the aev rear track bar bracket mounts to the factory mount, and the axle tubes on both sides via u bolts. Much stronger than the other bolt on brackets I've seen.
Let's compare apples to apples here. I am comparing the RK stock mod to the AEV 2.5 lift. Both use factory control arms. Not a fan of RK arms myself. That said, if I ever upgrade control arms, they will be Currie like I have on my TJ. Arguably the best controls arms out there. AEV doesn't supply a front track bar. They (AEV) told me the 2.5 lift doesn't need the TB; that the difference was negligible. I disagree. I have installed many lifts on CJ's, YJ's, TJ's and now a JK and I can tell you that if you want a centered front axle after a lift, you need a front adjustable TB. The RK rear TB mount bolts in AND is welded to the axle housing. What was that you said about strength? AEV may get the nod for roll center, but I would have to ride in a similar rig with the AEV lift to confirm that. The AEV 2.5 lift comes with Bilsteins, the RK lift recommends them. The cost for either lift is about the same after you buy a set of Bilstein shocks like I did. I am not saying that the RK lift is better than the AEV, but I certainly disagree that the AEV lift is better. I can only tell you that my RK stock mod with Bilsteins rides and handles great on road even with the 35" tires I put on it. All of this may be a moot point since both you and spider are lauding the merits of the AEV 3.5 lift. I always prefer a lower COG when I wheel, so I try to lift as low as I can in order to clear the tire size I want to run.

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Unread 09-07-2013, 02:30 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csm41

Let's compare apples to apples here. I am comparing the RK stock mod to the AEV 2.5 lift. Both use factory control arms. Not a fan of RK arms myself. That said, if I ever upgrade control arms, they will be Currie like I have on my TJ. Arguably the best controls arms out there. AEV doesn't supply a front track bar. They (AEV) told me the 2.5 lift doesn't need the TB; that the difference was negligible. I disagree. I have installed many lifts on CJ's, YJ's, TJ's and now a JK and I can tell you that if you want a centered front axle after a lift, you need a front adjustable TB. The RK rear TB mount bolts in AND is welded to the axle housing. What was that you said about strength? AEV may get the nod for roll center, but I would have to ride in a similar rig with the AEV lift to confirm that. The AEV 2.5 lift comes with Bilsteins, the RK lift recommends them. The cost for either lift is about the same after you buy a set of Bilstein shocks like I did. I am not saying that the RK lift is better than the AEV, but I certainly disagree that the AEV lift is better. I can only tell you that my RK stock mod with Bilsteins rides and handles great on road even with the 35" tires I put on it. All of this may be a moot point since both you and spider are lauding the merits of the AEV 3.5 lift. I always prefer a lower COG when I wheel, so I try to lift as low as I can in order to clear the tire size I want to run.

Seems like you're awful defensive about this for some reason...? We are just discussing.

I have my complaints about the AEV lifts as well. Mine started with the AEV 3.5 and a lot has been added and changed for my use. The OP said he is looking at a small lift that will handle well, and later giving the jeep to his daughter. You don't think progressive springs and tuned shocks would handle better on the road? And improved roll center? The 3.5" lift that spyder mentioned includes a front track bar bracket. That centers the axle. Also I notice that you say that the aev lift certainly isn't better, but you haven't ridden in or driven one?

My comment about rear track bar brackets also clearly said "other BOLT ON track bar brackets that I'VE seen". If the rock krawler gets welded on, well that doesn't really apply does it? However I could weld the whole aev bracket on the and it would be stronger yet, huh? But you don't have to.

I'm not real knowledgable on the RK stuff myself. But I thought when I looked before at the 2.5 stock mod it also doesn't come with bump stops, brake lines or brackets, shocks, etc. A person has to mix and match and piece it together.
So the AEV 2.5 comes with progressive springs all around (not just the front), tuned (not generic) 5100s, rear track bar and bracket with improved roll center (yes even the 2.5 has a taller track bar tower and reworked track bar), bump stops that are appropriately sized for the shocks, brake line brackets. Seems like it could be appropriate based on the little we heard from the OP. It is enough to be complete. I would prefer it was an adjustable front track bar, but there are plenty of lifted rigs on the road without perfectly centered axles. I would also prefer either the geometry correction brackets or adjustable control arms.

Even if you got the 2.5 stock mod, added shocks, brake lines, bump stops, paid someone to weld the track bar bracket, you feel that the linear springs and generic matched shocks will perform better?
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Unread 09-07-2013, 04:37 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianjw View Post
Seems like you're awful defensive about this for some reason...? We are just discussing.

I have my complaints about the AEV lifts as well. Mine started with the AEV 3.5 and a lot has been added and changed for my use. The OP said he is looking at a small lift that will handle well, and later giving the jeep to his daughter. You don't think progressive springs and tuned shocks would handle better on the road? And improved roll center? The 3.5" lift that spyder mentioned includes a front track bar bracket. That centers the axle. Also I notice that you say that the aev lift certainly isn't better, but you haven't ridden in or driven one?

My comment about rear track bar brackets also clearly said "other BOLT ON track bar brackets that I'VE seen". If the rock krawler gets welded on, well that doesn't really apply does it? However I could weld the whole aev bracket on the and it would be stronger yet, huh? But you don't have to.

I'm not real knowledgable on the RK stuff myself. But I thought when I looked before at the 2.5 stock mod it also doesn't come with bump stops, brake lines or brackets, shocks, etc. A person has to mix and match and piece it together.
So the AEV 2.5 comes with progressive springs all around (not just the front), tuned (not generic) 5100s, rear track bar and bracket with improved roll center (yes even the 2.5 has a taller track bar tower and reworked track bar), bump stops that are appropriately sized for the shocks, brake line brackets. Seems like it could be appropriate based on the little we heard from the OP. It is enough to be complete. I would prefer it was an adjustable front track bar, but there are plenty of lifted rigs on the road without perfectly centered axles. I would also prefer either the geometry correction brackets or adjustable control arms.

Even if you got the 2.5 stock mod, added shocks, brake lines, bump stops, paid someone to weld the track bar bracket, you feel that the linear springs and generic matched shocks will perform better?
Honestly not defensive here. It's all good really. I do like the AEV kit, I just think they both have their advantages, not one better than the other. I have put my hands on the AEV parts, but never had the privilege of riding in an AEV lifted vehicle, so you are correct, that much is mere speculation. The parts look equally as well built as the RK stuff. The shocks I got are RE monoshocks (Bilstein) valved for the RE set up. They ride a little softer than standard 5150's. I did have to add bumpstops, ss brake lines, and exhaust spacers. For strictly on road use I would guess that the AEV would probably be slightly better, but I guess I won't know until I get to ride in an AEV equipped vehicle. I will admit that I think a good reason my JKU rides so well on the street is due to the Rancho drop brackets and stock control arms. I can tell you that my JKU is a night and day difference from my TJ which is built for hard trail use. Much nicer street manners.
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Unread 09-08-2013, 01:39 AM   #25
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You also do not have to use the 5100s on the RK kit. I do not know if RK makes their RRD shocks for the 2.5, I have them for the 3.5, but you can also use any other shock you want from Old Man Emu to Fox. And for a tuned shock I would imagine its just marketing unless its tuned for your specific vehicle.
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