[BrettDez]

Hey guys,

I hate even bringing this up, but just have to. When my leak issue cannot be resolved(and I'm told it doesn't exist) after 3 trips to the dealership, I am more than a little unhappy. My girl complains about being rained on, my carpets get soaked, my dash gets covered in water too.....everytime it rains....

Okay, here's the story:

I am in the military, purchased my Jeep in New Jersey, and I am now in South Carolina. After continual rains causing leaking and a soaked carpet, I decided this isn't normal. I have owned a 1987 Wrangler and a 2003 Wrangler, neither had leaks through their tops. I now have a 2007 brand new vehicle that has a bad leak.

I take it into the dealership, they say they can ONLY work on leaks on thursdays. Working 80-90 hours a week with the military, this is MORE than just a little inconvenient. But nonetheless I make it work to see the dealership on a thursday, they say they only find one of the leaks I report(one on the driver's side and passenger's side up near the front of the door, where the soft top, the windshield, and the front corner of the door meet). They put little foam pieces to try and stop the leak. It does not.

About a month later when I can finally make it on a thursday again. They then tell me, they cannot find the leak(aka: cannot replicate the leak) and refuse to do anything about it. So I just suck it up, it's a Jeep and I treat it like one so I'll just let it go. But the leak is sometimes REALLY bad and my girlfriend then complains to me, and **** rolls downhill so I have to complain again to the dealership.

I FINALLY after alot of time(2-3 months since the second dropoff) get a chance to drop it off at the dealership. But what kicks it off is that I stop by during the little time I have off and am spending with her, to show the service manager IN THE RAIN the leak IN PROGRESS. He acknowledges the leak and says to bring it in Thursday(today) and they should be able to take care of it ASAP as he can see the carpet is a puddle, the dash is covered in water, the seat where my girlfriend sits is soaked, and the passenger door is dripping wet on the inside.

Now, they tell me yet again that they cannot replicate the leak. So I tell them, just a few days ago you saw the leak with your own eyes, why can't you find it? They tell me they don't know why and can't do anything about it, sorry. So I then ask, how is the service manager with his own eyes spotting the leak and watching it in action not good enough for me to get a warranty-covered repair taken care of? They say that it MUST be confirmed by the "leak doctor" who can't find it and again, is only there on thursdays.

Then they say the only way this "leak doctor" could make it leak was by spraying in a slight upward angle with some pressure. So I replied, "well...that sounds just like the upward angle of the airflow over the Jeep when traveling down the road pushing water into my Jeep and soaking the interior." They say, sorry there's nothing they can do.


This is the third time I have jumped through hoops to be able to drop off my only vehicle at the dealership only for them to not solve the problem, two times not even try. This is AFTER they have SEEN THE LEAK THEMSELVES IN THE RAIN IN ACTION!!!!!!!!!! Their only response was, "Even though the service manager saw it himself and can verify, they cannot do warranty work unless the guy with a phd in leaks(aka: the "leak doctor") confirms.


So, now I've come to a point. I have owned a 1987 Wrangler, a 2003 Wrangler, and now a brand new 2007 Wrangler and my brand new one is the only one that leaks, and leaks bad. I am at the point where I want them to give me a new wrangler if they can't fix the issue. I paid ALOT of money for a brand new wrangler and shouldn't have a leak issue my much older previous wranglers never had.

BUT, I am getting my service in South Carolina, the dealership I purchased from is in New Jersey.

What can I do? I don't mind a little water, BUT the carpets are going to get moldy if they haven't already started to grow mold underneath. Rust will be an issue! My girlfriend/fiancee being rained on will be an issue! And the dealership refuses to repair a problem they've seen with their own eyes saying they can't do it even though there are TSBs that probably cover it(windshield header)!


What can I do guys? I am in a bind, I don't think I can do a buyback at another dealership. And I do want a Wrangler, I do not want a different vehicle, I just want MY Wrangler to be leak free or a new Wrangler that's the exact same without a leak. I also have alot of accessories(new bumpers/winch and such), I still have the old bumpers to put back on though for the buyback, but there's two small holes drilled in the rear stock bumper. Anyone have any comments?

I need help, this isn't working right now. Anyone?

[donkie]

Before going down the buyback road can you try another dealership? Last time I checked your warranty does not state "can only fix leaks on thursdays" they should be keeping it and/or doing a better job besides 32 hours a month spent on leak repair.

You might want to start here: http://www.scconsumer.gov/faqs/lemon_law.htm

You will need to determine where the buyback will need to take place by law, SC or NJ and then follow the rules for that state. The SC office should be able to tell you. Then you need to make sure that you meet the requirements and from there. I have been through this in Alabama with another car make, once I contacted them with 3 unresolved repair tickets for the same issue ( hint: must be the same exact wording for the complaint on the service ticket, nothing exists unless it is in writing on letterhead, sent via certified letter and it must meet mileage mins/max ) they worked quickly to handle my buyback. It was a very time consuming process that requires some dilligence and most of all patience...

[BrettDez]

Again, like you mentioned time consuming process? Time is something I don't have, and my location will be consistently changing.... I will only be here in SC for another 2 months.

I have a feeling I'm going to get the ol' screw because I'm in the military.

[rirrgang]

It doesn't matter where you take it and the buy back program has nothing to do with the dealer. You need to make contact with Jeep and forget the dealer. You must have records of your visits, right? Start moving up the chain of command until you get someone to listen to you. I know it's a pain in the #$% and you work a lot of hours. Look at your owners manual packet. I think in the warranty brochure there is something mentioned about arbitration. Take a look and let us know how it went.

[Pacfanweb]

The "Leak Doctor" is likely one of the Water Doctors franchise guys. Regular line mechanics hate this type of work, because they never can do enough of it to get good at it and make money. So lots of dealers call leak specialists to do this work, and one of the hallmarks of the Water Doctors is having certain days at certain dealerships.

The ones I've dealt with can't fix a sandwich if you give them two pieces of bread and some lunch meat.

I am also in that line of work. They way the guy got yours to leak is EXACTLY why it leaks in the rain.

This is a design flaw in the JK's. There is a service bulletin to replace the weatherstrips (or gasket) for the top at the windshield.
Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't.

Another thing the dealer can try is replacing the actual top panels. They might simply be slightly warped.

The actual problem is that the right side latch at the windshield is too far away from the joint in the center where the top pieces come together. When you tighten the knob on the driver's side panel, it actually lifts the passenger side panel UP...and slightly away from the gasket.
Moving the windshield latch closer to the center would greatly improve this problem, in my opinion.

Having worked for a Ford dealership for 17 years before going into the leak/windnoise/sunroof repair business, I agree that your next call needs to be to Jeep. Get them on this, ASAP.

[BrettDez]

Originally Posted by Pacfanweb

The "Leak Doctor" is likely one of the Water Doctors franchise guys. Regular line mechanics hate this type of work, because they never can do enough of it to get good at it and make money. So lots of dealers call leak specialists to do this work, and one of the hallmarks of the Water Doctors is having certain days at certain dealerships.

The ones I've dealt with can't fix a sandwich if you give them two pieces of bread and some lunch meat.

I am also in that line of work. They way the guy got yours to leak is EXACTLY why it leaks in the rain.

This is a design flaw in the JK's. There is a service bulletin to replace the weatherstrips (or gasket) for the top at the windshield.
Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't.

Another thing the dealer can try is replacing the actual top panels. They might simply be slightly warped.

The actual problem is that the right side latch at the windshield is too far away from the joint in the center where the top pieces come together. When you tighten the knob on the driver's side panel, it actually lifts the passenger side panel UP...and slightly away from the gasket.
Moving the windshield latch closer to the center would greatly improve this problem, in my opinion.

Having worked for a Ford dealership for 17 years before going into the leak/windnoise/sunroof repair business, I agree that your next call needs to be to Jeep. Get them on this, ASAP.

Thanks for the input, I actually have the soft top, not the hard top. But I imagine the problems are the same or at least very close to it.

[waterboarder]

A). Why not get a friend, girl or otherwise, to take it on on Thursday for you so that isn't such a big deal?

B). Try a different dealer.

I have a feeling I'm going to get the ol' screw because I'm in the military.

Probably - but that screw is coming from the government, not necessarily the dealership.

[Bouncer]

Originally Posted by BrettDez

Hey guys,


What can I do guys? I am in a bind, I don't think I can do a buyback at another dealership. And I do want a Wrangler, I do not want a different vehicle, I just want MY Wrangler to be leak free or a new Wrangler that's the exact same without a leak. I also have alot of accessories(new bumpers/winch and such), I still have the old bumpers to put back on though for the buyback, but there's two small holes drilled in the rear stock bumper. Anyone have any comments?

I need help, this isn't working right now. Anyone?

I would shop around for another dealer for one. If I was in your shoes I would take the top off and check the seals for folds and damage. I would put a wack of vasoline all around the seals and put it back together. See what happens..

Good luck.. I already have a couple ideas I am going to try if I ever get this problem. Personally, and I have said this before this is going to become more common as the JK ages and people neglect their roof seals.

[donkie]

Originally Posted by BrettDez

Again, like you mentioned time consuming process? Time is something I don't have, and my location will be consistently changing.... I will only be here in SC for another 2 months.

I have a feeling I'm going to get the ol' screw because I'm in the military.

The laws of the state you are in will determine the process. Thank you for your service to our country - I'm sure that has nothing to do with the way Jeep is treating you, nor is it the reason your Jeep is broken. The process is not any easier for anyone, and no one will pay you for the time you spend dealing with this. It sucks, but I would not be driving it anywhere besides to the nearest Jeep dealership (possibly besides the one you have been to) and it would not leave until it was repaired, replaced or refunded. You can also contact Jeep for assistance, just get to the right place.

edit: do you have over 12 months or 12,000 miles?

SECTION 56-28-20. Manufacturers to provide annual written summaries of certain motor vehicles; forms; records to be made available; penalties.

Every manufacturer, in a format and a form that must be mailed annually to each manufacturer approved by the Administrator of the Department of Consumer Affairs, shall provide a written summary of all motor vehicles repurchased or replaced under this chapter no less than once each calendar year. In addition, every manufacturer shall make available any paperwork, reports, or other information regarding vehicles subject to this chapter upon request by the administrator. Failure to supply either the written summaries of repurchased vehicles or respond to reasonable requests for information by the administrator subjects the manufacturer to an administrative penalty not to exceed one thousand dollars for each violation which the administrator in his discretion may impose.

SECTION 56-28-30. Nonconformity with express warranties; notice required; repairs required.

If a new motor vehicle does not conform to all applicable express warranties within the first twelve months of purchase or the first twelve thousand miles of operation, whichever occurs first, and the consumer reports the nonconformity to the manufacturer or its agent during the term of the express warranties, the manufacturer, or its agent, shall make those repairs as are necessary to conform the vehicle to the express warranties at no cost to the consumer, notwithstanding the fact that the repairs are made after the expiration of the term.

[BrettDez]

Originally Posted by texasdog

A). Why not get a friend, girl or otherwise, to take it on on Thursday for you so that isn't such a big deal?

B). Try a different dealer.

Probably - but that screw is coming from the government, not necessarily the dealership.

I am trying B, again issue is time and distance for dealerships, but I'll be trying another one. As for A, down here the only people I know are in the military and with me, and most can't drive stick.

Thanks guys, let me try a few more things, and I'll post any results.

[RocksHurt]

If you do not wish to send in "the card" located in your pamplets, your best next option is to open up a case with Chrysler. This will make the manufacturer aware of the issue and they will assist to work the problems out. The dealer may not get deeply involved if the manufacturer will not assist them in labor costs they cannot completely justify.

Buybacks are not fun and can casue mood swings for several months; however, they do achive their goal.

[DSallen]

OK so charleston is a very military heavy city, that has all five branches located there. This being said, if you've been in for more than a minute and aren't just in rifleman training, than you already know you aren't going to get very good service anywhere. Military towns usually don't like the military, as weird as that sounds to the civilians. What you need to do is one of several things.

a) as said before, go to another dealership
b) reach down, grab 'em and raise hell till they do something
c) find out if any of the dealerships have a military liason(usually do

I personally would go for "b" but thats just my style. It usually works.

[BrettDez]

UPDATE:


Okay guys,

I spent alot of time on the phone with Chrysler, and 3 Jeep dealerships. I called my dealership to tell them, that as soon as I brought home my Jeep from them saying they "could not make it leak," I spritzed it with a hose and made it leak in less than a second. Then checking to see if I was just lucky, spritzed it from every angle imaginable and made it leak every single time.

I honestly think I'm being discriminated against now because I have northern plates in the south(wouldn't be the first time, I don't know why, but if I mention I'm from PA or anywhere north of Virginia, I get treated poorly....very odd to me...).

There is NOOOO way that ANYONE could have been "spraying down the Jeep for 1 to 2 hours" and not get a leak. This is the second time their "leak specialist" has said he cannot make it leak after spraying it for 2 hours. I can in less than half a second. And I took extra effort to point out the exact location it was leaking at, so it's not like he could've focused in the wrong spot.

So....now I have to assume that they are purposely "not finding" a leak....and I can't think of anything besides my Pennsylvannia plates as I've been a friendly loyal customer with them for over half a year, only just now has my frustration started to come out.......



And guess what else? I tried to go to another dealership? The SAME LEAK SPECIALIST DOES THAT DEALERSHIP TOO!!!!!! So taking it to another dealership doesn't help me!! I am really feeling....helpless..

Anyway, Chrysler contacted the "district manager" or business department of the dealership I've been using and sent them the "repair history" and that the leak was unrepairable. But, when I asked what contacting the district manager meant for me or what my next step was, the customer service reps(two of them) both had no answers.... So...this district manager is "notified," now what do I do???


And another question...I have put new bumpers, winch, and a CB installed inside the Jeep... I still have the stock bumpers and can put them back on, but the rear stock bumper has two small holes in it and I may damage the dash just slightly in order to get a CB clip off that I used epoxy on....

Am I going to end up having to pay several thousand more dollars for a replacement vehicle if that ends up being the case???

[parakleets]

Your experience sounds like mine! I wrote into the forum, yesterday, to inform everyone of the positive outcome that I had with the buyback. I will say that it takes forever, but never lose your temper with the dealership! They are the key to your happiness! The Service Dept. Manager declared my 07 unfixable, and the Business Manager also agreed to that assessment. I was given an 800 number to call, for Chrysler Customer Service. These people possess no powers, but merely act as "middlemen". I called this number everyday, especially when it rained! They will ask you "What can we do to rectify the situation?". My reply was always "fix my Jeep or get me one that does not leak"! This 800 number customer service rep will basically record your complaints, and research your service history. He/she will call the dealership to verify the situation. After placing your first or second call, the 800 number, call the dealership (specifically the Service Manager and Business Manager) to confirm that the customer service rep is in phone contact with them. The ultimate decision in the "buyback" falls into the hands of the Regional or District Service Manager, and the dealership Service Manager. The Regional Manager was dragging his feet, in my case, so I made several urgent (but still polite, and businesslike) calls the dealership Business Manager. He seemed to have some sort of pull over this guy, and got my case moving. Eventually, I was contacted by some outside, third party company, which was doing the actual purchase of my old Jeep. At this point, I was told to pick out a new Chrysler product, and have the dealer contact the third party with the VIN number. The third party, Chrysler, your finance company, and the dealership all have to agree the buyback. The buyback should technically be a VIN number swap, on all of the paperwork, and does not change your previous finance arrangements. You don't lose any money, but will have to pay the difference, if the new Jeep cost more than the old one. Fortunately for me, my finance company did not agree to the VIN swap, so I ultimately was "traded-out" of my old Jeep, and put into the new one, with completely new (and improved) financing! The whole process, after initially being contacted by the third party, took about two months.
I hope this helps!!!

Originally Posted by BrettDez

UPDATE:


Okay guys,

I spent alot of time on the phone with Chrysler, and 3 Jeep dealerships. I called my dealership to tell them, that as soon as I brought home my Jeep from them saying they "could not make it leak," I spritzed it with a hose and made it leak in less than a second. Then checking to see if I was just lucky, spritzed it from every angle imaginable and made it leak every single time.

I honestly think I'm being discriminated against now because I have northern plates in the south(wouldn't be the first time, I don't know why, but if I mention I'm from PA or anywhere north of Virginia, I get treated poorly....very odd to me...).

There is NOOOO way that ANYONE could have been "spraying down the Jeep for 1 to 2 hours" and not get a leak. This is the second time their "leak specialist" has said he cannot make it leak after spraying it for 2 hours. I can in less than half a second. And I took extra effort to point out the exact location it was leaking at, so it's not like he could've focused in the wrong spot.

So....now I have to assume that they are purposely "not finding" a leak....and I can't think of anything besides my Pennsylvannia plates as I've been a friendly loyal customer with them for over half a year, only just now has my frustration started to come out.......



And guess what else? I tried to go to another dealership? The SAME LEAK SPECIALIST DOES THAT DEALERSHIP TOO!!!!!! So taking it to another dealership doesn't help me!! I am really feeling....helpless..

Anyway, Chrysler contacted the "district manager" or business department of the dealership I've been using and sent them the "repair history" and that the leak was unrepairable. But, when I asked what contacting the district manager meant for me or what my next step was, the customer service reps(two of them) both had no answers.... So...this district manager is "notified," now what do I do???


And another question...I have put new bumpers, winch, and a CB installed inside the Jeep... I still have the stock bumpers and can put them back on, but the rear stock bumper has two small holes in it and I may damage the dash just slightly in order to get a CB clip off that I used epoxy on....

Am I going to end up having to pay several thousand more dollars for a replacement vehicle if that ends up being the case???

[Prot]

Sorry you are having so much hassle Brett. These kinds of stories scare me. Mine does not leak, but if it does, I hope I will not have to go through the same nonsense.

Texasdog, I really don't understand your comment here

"Probably - but that screw is coming from the government, not necessarily the dealership."