[VegasJeep]

It is quite odd why I am writing this letter but I feel it is needed. First this did not happen over night but almost 3 months in the making. I often praise companies when they have a product that works great. When I have a problem I often do not bring it to a forum as I know many companies can not be 100% great all the time. Usually they make it right and you get a correctly made or fitted product.
In the case of My jeep I had MANY MANY problems with this kit. I figured that the buying public needs to know about my Full Traction problems and the company that DOES NOT stand behind a poorly manufactured product.

SO When I purchased my 2008 Jeep Wrangler JK I researched a lot of different lifts on the market. My goals were to have a very capable offroad vehicle while maintaining the onroad ability of my Jeep. Even though this is not my daily driver I end up driving it more then my daily driver. The other thing I wanted was a Jeep that would clear at least 35s and sit level!

After talking with numerous manufactures and vendors I decided to purchase the Full Traction lift 4" Ultimate as well as Riddler Diff covers( more on those later). One Vendor I talked too said "this is what I run on my personal jeep" Thinking they actually used his jeep I would hope that he had put his jeep through the testing process if he was pushing a product so much. I found this not to be the case. SO I purchased the FT 4" Ultimate lift and riddler diffs and all was shipped to me.

I was stoked to finally be lifting the JK.
I got all the parts, took an inventory and was ready to install the parts.






Upon the start of the installation I found that where Full Traction said you would install a 3" bolt they included a 3 1/2" bolt. These bolts were for the front and rear track bars. The front was no big deal being a 1/2" longer then what was required but the rear ended up being a problem later on.


The lift was complete and I though I could start to have a wonderful Jeep to drive as I personally think a bone stock height JK looks crappy.



this is where the fun ended and the problems began.
First I was told I was gonna get a nice 4" level lift with the use of the Heavy Duty Front springs on this kit. If you are looking for a level sitting jeep you will have a jeep with the SAME rake as when it is factory.

I was taking the jeep on a trip the following weekend so I put a couple hundred miles on the jeep over the week and re torqued all the bolts to make sure the trip would be fine. During the week I kept hearing a clunking in both the front and rear of the jeep. I found the culprit on the rear was the 3 1/2" bolt for the rear track bar was coming in contact with the bumpstop. I cut it down to the 3" that the bolt was suppose to be and it too had the same problem. I eventually had to turn the bolt around where the head of the bolt barely cleared the bumpstop provided from from Full Traction. The clunking sound in the front was the Track bar coming in contact with the front diff cover. The diff cover recommended as being the slimest diff cover and would work great on this lift. I ground down the angles of the diff cover, tried to adjust the pinion angle a bit to help with clearance and nothing I did was enough to get it to clear. As you can see it was not just rubbing it was clobbering the diff cover. I could not get it to clear the front Riddler Diff. I still see this diff recommended by vendors as advertised to clear this kit. Either they do not know what they are recommending or I obviously have a bad part in my kit, like many other parts.





The following weekend I went on a 800 mile round trip to southern az and back. Everything seemed great.
My first offroad outing was the following Friday. It was a short trail and thank goodness it was right here in Vegas. It was the start of a long list of problems with the keep all stemming from the Full Traction lift.
During the offroading I started to get a clunking noise. I was unsure of the noise at it was coming from what I though was both the front and the Rear of the Jeep. I would stop, look under neath and could not find anything visibly wrong. This went on for an hour and then a BAD clunk was heard. Well I get out and find that moving the rear Sway bar end links to the front did not work. With the electronic swaybar disconnected they would bind up and causing the swaybar to swing forward. This in turn when the suspension cycles back in folds the link in half. It was a quick trail fix as I just undid the sway bar end links and through them in the jeep, then zip tied the sway bar up and out of the way. I would run the rest of the trail disconnected and the trip home. No big deal. Ill call Full Traction on Monday.

[VegasJeep]

While continuing the trail I still got a lot of knocking from both the front and rear of the jeep. We got finished with the trail, I aired up and we all went our ways. I got out to the road put on the brakes on the pavement and realized what the knocking sound was coming from the jeep. My entire front and rear axles were shifting underneath my jeep. EVERY Rubber (or whatever material they used for their bushings) bushing that Full traction uses had cracked and broken apart allowing the control arms to shift over 1 1/2" over the bolt on every end with these bushings. I got it back home pulled the wheels off and took some pics. I was a bit upset to say the least. The lift had less then 900 maybe 1k miles tops on it and this is what I had to deal with?

[VegasJeep]

I called Full Traction that Monday and we had a discussion that went much like I had though it would. He had NEVER heard of this problem and I would have to disassemble the jeep, take out the bushings and send them to him. After hanging up I decided this was not going to be acceptable. i have a jeep that has this few of miles and The kit has already had bent sway bar end links, wrong bolts, bumpstops not manufactured correctly, hitting front track bar(which when the stock cover installed it too hit that), and bushings that went out in all the arms.

I am not a member at the other "JK" site as I mentioned where to find a great deal on a jeep that was not a sponsor but I went on there as they do get a lot of JK traffic. I found three other posts where Patrick from full traction had different people complaining about the very thing that I was having trouble with THE BUSHINGS.
SO I sent Full Traction this letter.

I ordered this kit through XXXXXXXXXXXXX after being told and convinced this was the best lift kit I will find for my new JK. This kit was installed roughly 10 days ago. It has less then 1k miles on it and about 30 off road.
This is unacceptable quality from a kit manufacture who claims "Simply stated—We feel our products are the best. Look for the Full-Traction Suspension logo as a mark of quality."
Luckily this kit was installed on my own personal vehicle and not on a customers vehicle. After being left stranded with a vehicle which could no longer reconnect the front sway bar, and could not drive as with every single control arm bushing was broken and had movement it made it impossible to drive even at slow speeds.

At this point after just getting off the phone with Full Traction they do not currently have a fix as he stated neither problem he had NEVER heard happened before( I found numerous people online with the same problems with pics), I would like a full refund as replacing the bushings with new ones of the same material will yield the same results. I do not have the time or the money to rebuild my Jeep every week or 1k miles. Seen as how I put on about 35-40k miles a year it will cost me almost 500 each week to keep my jeep drivable. Not to mention loose a day of my jeep being in the shop for repairs.

Attached is 20 pictures, in the following email I will attach the video.

This prompted a return phone call from Patrick within the same day telling me they had a fix and it will not be a problem to get me taken care of. I was told that he would send me a johnny joint Uniball bushing to replace the bushings that went bad. Since each end of the control arm was threaded for them already.
At this point I figured we were through the bad control arm problem and maybe this could get better. I was told they would go out the same day which they did not. I did call the next day for a tracking number as I was anxious to get this back on the road and drivable. I was provided a tracking number later that same day. The bushings did show up two days later.( a lot better then the kid who has been promised FOUR yes FOUR times by Patrick that his replacement bushings are going out today and it has been over 6 weeks) oddly enough I printed out the entire thread for proof of others with the same problem and now the thread is deleted. Full traction are more regulars over there then on here.
UPS showed up and I of course like a kid on Christmas was ready to put the Uniball bushings on the jeep. However, I have seen Johnny joints before and these were no Johnny joints. They were definitely a cheap copy of a johnny joint. So much so that before installation I found they would have to be modified to make them stay lubed.
Here is the bushing that I got and was told a Johnny joint was on its way.

Here is the problem I found before installation

Once installed both halves would be squished so tight that no lube from the zerk fitting would ever make it to the uniball. It would never get lubed. These had to be made by the same cheap company who had made those high quality first rubber type bushings. And they are! A company called Summit Machine makes Full tractions bushings. Or from what I can tell. If you are ordering a lift kit make sue you stay away from ANY kit running ANY of their bushings.
It was evident I would at the very least have to drill some holes into the new bushing halves to allow grease to make it to the center of the uniball.



I installed the new uniballs and knew that I would still have problems. With the two halves bottoming out before the proper preload was set on the spanner nut you would have a uniball to loose in the outer halves and a sloppy ride with premature wear.
Well this is EXACTLY what I had. A crappy ride that felt as though the jeep was all over the place. Not to mention I still had the problems with the track bar, end links, and a new problem that arises.
When I reinstalled the control arms I had installed the quick disconnects that came with the kit for non rubicon models without the electronic sway bar.

These were a tad bit longer then the factory rears that were to be moved to the front but no where near as long as other companies disconnects or replacement end links included in the JK kits.
I had another trail I was going to do and once again I could not make it through the trail. The swaybar end link folded over the Tierod again and I had to drive home disconnected.

[VegasJeep]

I got it home and parked it in the garage. The following morning I woke up to what I feel was the worse thing to have happened yet. I know hard to believe with all the troubles but it got worse. I had fluid behind my tire on the front on the ground. I did the dip test and it was oily. It was break fluid. While most manufactures on their 4" kits use replacement stainless brake lines the Full Traction kit uses a relocation bracket. This bracket does not properly relocate the brakeline causing the factory brake line to rip apart where the rubber meets the metal formed piece causing a leak.
This is when I decided enough was enough. I still had 3 more factory brake lines on the jeep that were mounted with the same bracket. My jeep had around 1100 miles on it.

I then sent Patrick at Full Traction this letter.

July 22, 2008
Patrick
Full Traction
6951 McDivitt Dr.
Bakersfield, Ca 93313



Dear Patrick,

I received the new Uniball bushings you supplied me to replace your destroyed factory bushings and got them installed. the install went fairly smooth but getting rid of the urethane on one end of the control arm that you as well as many others use is not a great idea. After talking with you and many others the reason Urethane is retained on one end of the control arm is to retain a nice ride. Getting rid of that now has sacrificed the on road ride.
After getting everything back assembled I now have another problem that needs fixing. A ripped front Rubber Brake Line. I now have to replace the front and probably rear brake lines as retaining the factory brake lines like Full Traction does with this kit is not a viable option as they extend to long and break.
It is my experience that this Full Traction 4” Ultimate kit for the 4 door JK was not properly designed, researched and tested before release. Using this kit as it was designed leads to a catastrophic failure ending our outings early EVERY time.
To date with less then 1k miles on the kit we have replaced all Lower supplied bushings on the arms as they had all failed. The rear uppers have also oblonged out and need replacing. The front brake lines need replaced now with longer ones (a HUGE safety issue) and the rears are suffereing from the same problem. I am aware that most other 4” kits on the market include longer extended brake lines as they have performed proper research and testing to know that a relocation bracket is not sufficient for the JK when using max travel. The front track bar does not clear the front differential housing until the front arms were 1/4” shorter then the factory arms. This is the opposite of what should be happening with replacing the arms. Because of this my 35” tires are touching the rear of the fender openings at full flex which is a smaller tire then what is advertised to work on this kit as you sell this kit to clear a 37” tire. After looking at other kits on the market their adjustable track bars have a much different design on them.
A number of the bolts included were to long and needed to be shortened after I had installed the kit as they had clearance issues with other supplied parts of your kit. Once again this would have not been issue with proper testing of this suspension kit.
I have concluded that this kit was not ready to be put on the market for sale as it is. It is incomplete, not properly designed, and has caused to potentially fatal problems while driving the vehicle which has not even seen its first oil change yet.
All of this does not include the squeaking that this kit suffers from. You will notice by my hundreds of install pictures available on the net that this kit was properly installed and lubed before installation. With the hundreds of squeaking complaints around the Jeep forums another flaw in the design of this kit in the quality and composite of the bushings. The same bushings that have already failed and continue to fail on me.
As you know and others have already experienced in your directions you instruct to move the rear sway bar end links to the front. This will work under normal driving conditions but once the sway bar is disconnected electronically you end up with a bend sway bar end link and a gouged up drag link. The proper way to fix this is supply a proper length end link like other reputable companies have done.
The advertised height of this kit is also an issue. After being told it would support a front HD bumper and winch without a problem I have now lost the 4” advertised height. In fact I have lost over 2” of height since first installed.
At this point it is obvious that your company has sold an incomplete poorly designed kit and I would like a full refund. I have numerous detailed photos to catalog the problems encountered with this kit from its first install to its numerous repairs in under 3 weeks of ownership.
I am demanding a full refund on this kit. Although it was not ordered directly from you it was dropped shipped directly from you. As a reputable company I would hope that you would credit XXXXXXXXXXXXXX and allow us to part ways peacefully.

I await your response VIA EMAIL as to how you would like to get me my refund on this kit.

Sincerely yours,

I never received a return call from Full Traction. I did however receive a return call from XXXXXXXXXXX who was a bit upset but did say he would try to work with me. They said in no means would They EVER give me me my money back. I thought this may still get resolved yet. After hanging up the phone with Them and thinking about what they wanted me to do it was just plain stupid. They wanted me to ship my track bar for inspection and then they could compare it to one that they have and then send it to Full traction for them to look at it. Well every piece of my lift would have to be removed as the track bar, relocation brackets, control arms, all had problems... That means I would be out over 100 bucks to ship the kit, the time to disassemble and reinstall the kit, and the time I would be down without a jeep. It was clear that EVERY part of this kit was not working and so I decided this was not a good option. I would be without a jeep for over a month.

SO I removed the entire kit and shipped it back. This has been the worst suspension kit I have EVER installed on any of my own personal vehicles. I have used kits from Giant Suspension, Fabtech, Rockkrawler, Pro Comp, Donahoe, Rancho, and POly Performance. I am sure I have missed a couple in there. By far this kit had more problems then all the other kits combined!!! Not only is this going to cause grief to anyone who purchases one of these kits it will also cost you time and money. I hope you have a second vehicle to drive while you work out the problems!

I installed a Poly Performance Stage III Synergy suspension kit with HD tie rod and Front and Rear adjustable trac bars. This kit has been flawless. I currently have more then 8000 miles on my jeep and I have had not one other issue. The kit flexes better then the Full Traction Kit does, provides a great drive with NO bumpsteer do to not using a drop pitman arm design steering.
I would highly recommend Poly Performance and anything for a JK they make.Not to mention, their arms are fully adjustable while stil bolted up on BOTH ends. No need to disassemble your jeep every time you need to make an adjustment.










Other great companies that have treated me right are

Bestop
Off Road Evolution
Walker Evans
Warn
Red Rock Fab
Red Rock 4X4
Toyo Tires
JE Reel Driveshafts
Superior Gear
Mastercraft Seats
Treks or T&T Customs
AEV
WInchline.com
Kilby
KC Hi-lites
Powetank

If I missed someone I sincerely apologize!

[BRICKTOP2]

I....seem to recall a thread titled...oh....something like "Rubicon Express/Mopar 4.5" Long Arm vs Teraflex 4" Long arm, which one is best?"

and I seem to recall that I responded in favor of the RE/Mopar kit.

I ALSO seem to recall a response that went something like:

Originally Posted by VegasJeep
Im not biased in fact ordered up a RE Long arm 4.5" for my personal JK. Once we started installing these things I just cannot believe how bad it handles. Like I said in another post. RE even admitted to how CRAPPY this thing handled and drove. That is why after releasing the kit they now include a HD drag link to help tame this beast on the road.
I suggest you jump in a few other jeeps and go for rides. In fact drive in them. HUGE difference in handling.

Now I have the Mopar 4.5 LA kit and have had ZERO issues and couldn't be happier with the offroad performance and the handling on road. I suppose someone might be inclined to think that if one person was said to be "right" and one person was said to be "wrong" in regards to "which one is best"....I just might be the former and you my friend might be the latter.



Just messin with you. Sorry about the pain in the a$$ you've gone through. Hope this new set up treats you better.

[BRICKTOP2]

BTW...that just might win the award for longest post I have ever seen. Very detailed though. I would read every word if I was considering that lift.

[Imped]

Excellent, very informative review that will surely help out prospective buyers. I hope that FT learns from their mistakes.

[VegasJeep]

Originally Posted by BRICKTOP2

I....seem to recall a thread titled...oh....something like "Rubicon Express/Mopar 4.5" Long Arm vs Teraflex 4" Long arm, which one is best?"

and I seem to recall that I responded in favor of the RE/Mopar kit.

I ALSO seem to recall a response that went something like:

Originally Posted by VegasJeep
Im not biased in fact ordered up a RE Long arm 4.5" for my personal JK. Once we started installing these things I just cannot believe how bad it handles. Like I said in another post. RE even admitted to how CRAPPY this thing handled and drove. That is why after releasing the kit they now include a HD drag link to help tame this beast on the road.
I suggest you jump in a few other jeeps and go for rides. In fact drive in them. HUGE difference in handling.

Now I have the Mopar 4.5 LA kit and have had ZERO issues and couldn't be happier with the offroad performance and the handling on road. I suppose someone might be inclined to think that if one person was said to be "right" and one person was said to be "wrong" in regards to "which one is best"....I just might be the former and you my friend might be the latter.



Just messin with you. Sorry about the pain in the a$$ you've gone through. Hope this new set up treats you better.

hey now

You cannot look at just that one excerpt... Actually I could have come back and reposted on that thread but long forgot about it.
WHen the RE 4.5" long arm kit came out they did not flip the drag link and the steering was down right SCARY!!! THe spring rates and quality of the kit is the same as it has always been from RE. They dial in their springs and build a quality kit.

For anyone reading this thread the STEERING issue has been resolved by RE. They now include a drag link with all their 4.5" long arm kits which addresses the scary terrible steering.
In fact, that was the only issue I had when I posted that is the sterring was bad.. real bad. You got a leter kit that addressed the steering and all RE kits address it now...


Feel better?

[Smith2287]

Wow I was really thinking about getting that same kit for my JK when it arrives in a couple months. Now I am going to look elsewhere for a better kit. Thanks for the very detailed post,

-Corey

[BiGEN]

i got the 3" full traction with the front and rear adjustable trac bars.. mine dont rub... i havent had any problems really... none major... had to grid the rear bump stop bc it was rubbing the sway bar link since i tilted my axle.. but really no problems.. i had it on there for 5000 miles... some people dont like different lifts.. some people have bad luck some have good... i love my 3" FT lift..

[edwin907]

I've got Full Traction control arms and track bars with an OME HD spring/shock setup and ARB differential covers.
So far zero problems, zero squeaks, couldn't be happier.

[VegasJeep]

Originally Posted by edwin907

I've got Full Traction control arms and track bars with an OME HD spring/shock setup and ARB differential covers.
So far zero problems, zero squeaks, couldn't be happier.

They do not make mystery "good" bushings so be careful. many people have had the bushings disintegrate to nothing

[planman]

I purchased front and rear Purejeep bumpers (Purejeep is owned by Full Traction). The install was easy. They fit perfectly. They are the highest quality pieces of armor I have ever had on a jeep.

I empathize with the OP's experience. I have had problems with compatibility of front adjustable trackbars and front differential guards, and I have had bushing problems with 2 different manufacturers.

On jeepforum and other places, I always have read great reviews for Rubicon Express Superflex kits for TJs. However, some friends have had problems with their Superflex joint/bushings.

I am sure that Full Traction will step up to the plate and fix the problem. The owner has a reputation of being a perfectionist.

[VegasJeep]

Originally Posted by planman

I purchased front and rear Purejeep bumpers (Purejeep is owned by Full Traction). The install was easy. They fit perfectly. They are the highest quality pieces of armor I have ever had on a jeep.

I empathize with the OP's experience. I have had problems with compatibility of front adjustable trackbars and front differential guards, and I have had bushing problems with 2 different manufacturers.

On jeepforum and other places, I always have read great reviews for Rubicon Express Superflex kits for TJs. However, some friends have had problems with their Superflex joint/bushings.

I am sure that Full Traction will step up to the plate and fix the problem. The owner has a reputation of being a perfectionist.

Where do you get that steve is a perfectionist? I can show you an history that shows just the opposite. The owner did not care to rectify the problem. In fact this has been going on for almost 3 months since the kit has been removed and they DO NOT care to fix it.

The only reason the name Full Traction exists is because they had such a bad reputation with their former company. "CALMINI" Yes, same company NEW name... CALMINI was known for having the worst customer service in the industry. Now Full Traction wants to go on to make armor and they have to make yet ANOTHER name cause Full Traction has done the same thing that happened with Calmini. They have a history of CRAPPY parts and CRAPPY customer service.

I dont know where you get the term "Quality" for Purejeep products but they are more like an "economy" line of products.

Full Traction has WAY more complaints on the net then ANY other company. We are not talking bushings here. We are also talking improper kit design, bad track bars, bad bolts in kits, bad bumpstop design, springs that dont offer proper lift, SHOULD I GO ON?

[Warlord2]

weird, Ive had zero complaints with mine for 10k miles now, no clanking, no squeaking. Like BiGEN said, bumpstops are rubbing now with the tilted axles, prolly get some of poly's bumpstops to fix that soon. Did get over advertised lift with the 3" kit but with 200lbs of armor on either side it will sink to advertized height. Dont have any of the rubbing you mentioned, nor has the bushings even remotely cracked or shunk. This was one of the first lifts offered for the JK when I purchased it, that had everything adjustable. I would get something else if I were to do it again as it seems there are a lot better lifts out now sense I installed it this one. Next will be a 6" long arm for some 38"s. Sorry to hear about your troubles...